Author Topic: Music + Politics = ?  (Read 9497 times)

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Offline gaijin

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2004, 06:28:07 pm »
the biggest threat to my country is fundamentalists.

If the biggest threat is fundamentalists then Bush is part of that threat. Or maybe you mean Islamic fundamentalists. In my view christian fandamentalists are equally dangerous to islamic or jewish or any other fundamentalist. But thats just my view, feel free to disagree

Well put.
Oi, is this when I get a huge sig-image, start whining about "moar sid" and make nonsensical arguments to no good?

Offline Outboundlight

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2004, 07:08:03 pm »
a fundamentalist is not a danger just by simply existing, that is - being a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist has to do something dangerous, as indeed the often do, to be warranted a danger. It is not their fundamental beliefs that are dangerous. For example, a member of al-queda could be seen as a "fundamentalist" muslim, or a member of the Ku Klux Klan a "fundamentalist" christian, but their dangerous actions, ie killing people, blowing stuff up etc are not part of their religion. Nowhere in the bible does it say "string a black guy up on a tree" and nowhere in the koran does it say "fly a plane into a big building"

in short - dont fear people because they are fundamentalists, fear them because they are violent psychopaths ;D

Offline Turin

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2004, 08:22:30 pm »
EDIT: This board sucks for quoting.  :(
« Last Edit: October 27, 2004, 08:32:28 pm by Turin »

Offline Turin

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2004, 08:40:23 pm »
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If the biggest threat is fundamentalists then Bush is part of that threat. Or maybe you mean Islamic fundamentalists. In my view christian fandamentalists are equally dangerous to islamic or jewish or any other fundamentalist. But thats just my view, feel free to disagree.


I disagree doktron, last I see, Bush did not blow up 3000 people. He does want to implement policies to strip homosexuals of their civil right to get married, and this is WRONG. But then again, whos the worse fundamentalist Osama Bin Laden or George Bush?


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ANARCHY

@Vision
Yes, I've always wanted to live in a Feudal government where warlords control me like slaves. [/sarcasm]

Power only corrupts the willing. Power does not ALWAYS corrupt as you said, look at the Roman Cinncinatus. There is one constant, power always corrupts big government. That is why I am a Libertarian and not a Socialist, or Republican.

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I wish Turin would quit referring to Article 54. As Robert says: that is the EU, it's not a country. If say the US made a Article 54 type document then it would directly influence their politics. Because EU made this, if they decide to implemenmt it, then the member states can (if they really think it's worth their while) pull out. [And if enough states pull out, then the EU will be in disarray and may be forced to revoke the implementation]. The EU is just another level of politics and can still be influenced by member decisions. Just because Article 54 is looking like its getting a little communist, does not all the European countries are gonbna close their doors to the world and start declaring socialist independence.

@Laser
So your saying a independent state has no right to leave a voluntary union? If those states are not liking how it is going on, then why should they be forced to stay in it? Article 54 has nothing to do with leaving the union and everything to do with individual free speech.

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I think I agree with Vortex's shop.  I'll be abstaining from the voting.  The "patriots" may say I have no right to bitch if I don't vote, but I'm not taking responsibility for either of these guys.....

What about Third party? The Libertarian party has gotten my vote. While I disagree with their foriegn policies, their social and economic policies are right on the money. Check em out!

www.lp.org

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You guys act as if it's just about choosing between two guys here... The way I see it, is that they way Bush is going might just lead the world to Nuclear War, something I doubt John Kerry, who's actually BEEN to war, would do. And that's just the top of the ice berg...


Yes, lets make generalizations of people we don't know and make predictions like Miss Cleo.

 America has every right to defend itself, but use Nuclear Weapons? You actually think Congress and the Judicial Branch will let him? Not to mention John Kerry and his pals. If George Bush used nuclear weapons of any kind, I would drive to the White House and put a bullet through his head, but I'm confident he will not.

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It's not about who raises taxes or looks good when they ride their bike. It's about who's more likely to destroy the fucking world.

It is about raising taxes. Lets just keep raising them until half of what we earn goes to the government, so then we can have people bitch and moan about how much the government makes in revenue each year, lets just make the government more powerful and larger! Lets make the poor people dependent on the government instead of their own responsiblity like it is in say.. Sweden?

Bush has no history of gassing his own people like Saddam did, so I hig
hly doubt hes gonna blow up the world.

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And about EU ... EU is not a country, so it's really not the same thing. All of the member states here actually have a president or prime minister each, not just a single one for the entire union, and the guy we got is harmless, even though he's kinda lame...


What you said has nothing to do with the EU charter, I'm talking about the limitations on free speech. If construed the wrong way, what you just said could be "leading to destruction of the charter".

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I discussed the Bush-situation with a friend I've got, one of my former teachers, who's a UN analyst (and a former UN soldier); INSERT INTO yabbse_messages (ID_MSG, ID_TOPIC, ID_MEMBER, subject, posterName, posterEmail, posterTime, posterIP, smiliesEnabled, modifiedTime, modifiedName, body, icon, attachmentSize, attachmentFilename) VALUES and his views on the situation is slightly different than for example Michael Moore's and Randi Rhodes, but he still ultimately feels that what Bush is doing is just awful and it's not making anything better... Definitely he's not making anyone safer.

Yes, liberating the Iraqi people from tyranny! Just awful! /sarcasm

I say we just let them have more years of acid bath, religious persucution, torture chambers, and rape rooms. Did you know that the Iraqi soccer team got their legs and arms broken a few years back for not winning the Olympics?

I respect your opinion to disagree with the situation, but to call it awful? There is some good coming out of it.

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The way I see it, it's simple... Bush says "fuck you all" to everyone who doesn't kneel before the USA and his warped world view, and John Kerry wants to regain the world's faith in the USA.

Bush says "fuck you all, I am not going to bow to your defense of Islamo Fascism." and Kerry says "We just got attacked? Ok, lemme see if France approves of defending ourselves. "

The UN or the EU do not own this world. Neitheir does the United States. But if the Islamic Fundamentalists had their way, they would own this world.

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Trust me, guys... This is not just another election between two equally messed up morons... They might both be messed up, but one of them is truly dangerous... The other one isn't.


John Kerry wants to take away my guns, socialize my healthcare system, continue the Patriot Act, and increase the taxes. I think that is dangerous. As if the government is not involved enough. I will not make my self bow to politicians in Washington.

It is fortunate for governments that people do not think.
-Adolf Hitler

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Let's take a look at some evil-doers through history...
Number of Americans killed by:
Usama bin Laden, roughly 3000 people.
Saddam Hussein, roughly 500 people. (Before the war)
Jefferson Davies, 360 000 people.

Saddam killed over 6,000 Kurds in northern Iraq in 1988 during his Anfal cleansing campaign, he used WMD, that disappeared and now the left whines about how he never had WMD.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/ANFALINT.htm

Jefferson Davis was a Confederate, not part of the United States.

You don't seriously want me to bring up the attrocities of Europe and compare them to the black marks of American History do you? Bethmann-Hollweg, Hitler, Mussolini, Pope Urban II, *yawn*, we could go on for days.

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You need to understand, that "liberal socialist" and "French" are not ugly words outside the American bubble, you know, the one enclosed by Fox, and buttoned shut by the US right wing agenda... It basically means "friendly person" here, but I understand that "liberal" is a four-letter word to many Americans. So is "taxes".  Ph334r it.

I never said that "French" is an ugly word. Modern liberalism and socialism are in my book, but what we find "ugly" is relative.

Taxes are evil, they are the reason there are polticians in offic
e.

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i hope Turin is getting at is that the garbage of our republic (our current politicians) is not quite so bad as the garbage of communism, fascism, socialism, etc.

@neovulcan

Sweden is the very definition of a socialist state, and I am led to believe you are all "drones" because I have not met ONE conservative European.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2004, 08:48:38 pm by Turin »

Offline Laser.T

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2004, 09:00:10 pm »
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I wish Turin would quit referring to Article 54. As Robert says: that is the EU, it's not a country. If say the US made a Article 54 type document then it would directly influence their politics. Because EU made this, if they decide to implemenmt it, then the member states can (if they really think it's worth their while) pull out. [And if enough states pull out, then the EU will be in disarray and may be forced to revoke the implementation]. The EU is just another level of politics and can still be influenced by member decisions. Just because Article 54 is looking like its getting a little communist, does not all the European countries are gonbna close their doors to the world and start declaring socialist independence.

@Laser
So your saying a independent state has no right to leave a voluntary union? If those states are not liking how it is going on, then why should they be forced to stay in it? Article 54 has nothing to do with leaving the union and everything to do with individual free speech.

I think you've totally misread my post. That's probably my fault for putting it all in one paragraph. You've totally misundestood me; that's not what I meant at all. I was talking about each states right to leave, you seem to think I meant they are forced to stay in.

What I said was that if a state does not like Article 54 they have every right to leave, and if enough threaten to leave then Article 54 would have to be revoked. I'm saying we still have ways to stop Atricle 54. Is my position clear now?

Offline Turin

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2004, 09:05:41 pm »
Yes, I totally misread, not your fault.

Offline L'homme magique

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2004, 09:06:14 pm »
You don't seriously want me to bring up the attrocities of Europe and compare them to the black marks of American History do you? Bethmann-Hollweg, Hitler, Mussolini, Pope Urban II, *yawn*, we could go on for days.
Yes, and do you know why? Because Europe is an entire continent, one that's been populated and "civilised" much longer than the United States (a mere country) has.

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I am led to believe you are all "drones" because I have not met ONE conservative European.
That's perhaps the dumbest generalization I've ever heard, anywhere. I've only met conservative Australian, therefore all Australians are conservative, right? Oh wait, I forgot I'm leaving out all but twenty-three of the Australian population. MY BAD.
"It's like growing up reading good books or listening to good music. One good sofa breeds another good sofa; one bad sofa breeds another bad sofa. That's how it goes."

Offline Laser.T

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2004, 09:25:47 pm »
I'm still not clear as to why conservative is good and socialist is bad in your book.

To Brits, conservative means an obsession with freeing up trade and so dismantling all the public services and handing them out in parts to private companies. These private companies, then, with only an interest in profit and none in ethics and people's needs, then cut back on all (in their eys) non-necessary expenditure.

This leads to people being stuck in rural areas because their one-a-day bus sevice was not profitable; Trains to be totally screwed up and clashing constantly as there is none central order to the network, and for thousands/millions of jobs to be lost in shipbuilding, stell production, coal mining and all other privatised services.

That's why Labour was voted in (who then turned out to be as conservative as the Conservatives :-\)

Freeing up the capitalist system isn't the great thing it may seem to be.

Offline Fallout

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2004, 09:35:03 pm »
Turin..

I think i speak for everyone here when i say STFU!!

I dont think anyone really bothered reading that THREE AND A HALF PAGES LONG post, because it was simply too long. Try finding something more interesting to do with your life than posting about -politics- on a -music- forum.

Offline Gordon

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2004, 09:57:07 pm »
Ok... I sense some tension on the forum pages...
Discussion.. good... Tension... bad!  :)

Anywho... We all have different opinions about a lot of things... The thing that bind you all together on this forum is that you like Machinae Supremacy. Embrace your similarities and accept your differances.

Please, try to keep your cool. Don't be so upset about things... People are starving and shit in some country somewhere... Ok.. don't know where to go now..

Just keep it civilised.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2004, 10:02:19 pm by Gordon »

"Det är Arvids tur att sitta i lådan."

Offline ПФББЧ

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2004, 10:01:18 pm »
Ok.. don't know where to go now..
the starving country, to help?
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Offline Fallout

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2004, 10:01:38 pm »
Not really tension.. Im calm.. calm..

LEMME-AT-IM!! ;D

Lol, it does get a bit annoying though, having 3-and-a-half-page-long posts.

Offline Gordon

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2004, 10:03:59 pm »
Ok.. don't know where to go now..
the starving country, to help?

Holy crap! You crack me up!  ;D

"Det är Arvids tur att sitta i lådan."

Offline Gordon

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2004, 10:05:09 pm »
Not really tension.. Im calm.. calm..

LEMME-AT-IM!! ;D

Lol, it does get a bit annoying though, having 3-and-a-half-page-long posts.

Yep.. I get it.

"Det är Arvids tur att sitta i lådan."

Offline Laser.T

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Re:Music + Politics = ?
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2004, 10:07:25 pm »
Ok.. don't know where to go now..
the starving country, to help?

Comedy timing, nobby. I'd appluad you, but since you and Fallout screwed the syertm over it seems kinda pointless. Have an applaud anyway.

And think about those starving children. There's some worst shit going on in the world that we can't even begin to imagine. Just be glad you live in Western society...