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The Band => Band Discussion => Topic started by: Lelle on April 04, 2006, 09:15:16 pm

Title: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lelle on April 04, 2006, 09:15:16 pm
elite - masu itself?
rise -
fury -
ronin -
kaori stomp -
hate -
i know the reaper -
17 - americas world policy
rogue world asylum -
through the looking glass -
oki kumas adventure -
reanimator -
empire -

as you can see i'm not yet into the lyrics that much!  ;D
help me out with the rest.  :D
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MashedByMachines on April 04, 2006, 09:36:10 pm
Fury -  A storm i think.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Outboundlight on April 04, 2006, 09:38:43 pm
i can only assume that reanimator is at least loosely based on the H.P Lovecraft short story Herbert West: Reanimator. Which is a fucking good read.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Smeagol on April 04, 2006, 09:47:19 pm
Fury -  A storm i think.

Fury was the one 'fantasy' kinda song IIRC.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trias on April 04, 2006, 10:52:00 pm
yeah I thought it was about fighting a dragon or something. Haven't the lyrics been posted some time ago? I can't find them...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MashedByMachines on April 04, 2006, 10:53:06 pm
yeah, and robert explained how he was inspired by a storm. i dunno if the lyrics is a direct reference to the storm though
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ice1980 on April 04, 2006, 10:53:53 pm
http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php?topic=2459.0 = lyrics.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trias on April 04, 2006, 10:58:33 pm
ok I see the search bar above only searches the local sub-forum/topic you are currently on...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Drakonis on April 04, 2006, 11:04:11 pm
Hehe, I can see how Fury could be inspired by/about a storm. The dragon references are awesome though, I've always been fond of that song. :)


Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trezker on April 04, 2006, 11:32:25 pm
Fury is oooold.  ;D
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: potatismos on April 04, 2006, 11:36:21 pm
i know the reaper - fear of death, and doubt of life after death i think
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trezker on April 04, 2006, 11:53:30 pm
Rogue World Asylum is about mother nature??? o_O
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on April 05, 2006, 12:05:35 am
empire is also about america
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: zynaps on April 05, 2006, 12:11:47 am
Hate is about HATE AND REVENGE! and HATE AGAIN! :D
Rise is about Reality TV according to Rob
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Turin on April 05, 2006, 01:49:02 am
Fury isnt about a storm, nor is it about a dragon.

It has a deeper meaning.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Smeagol on April 05, 2006, 01:55:10 am
Hmm, I'm not so sure, Fury seems to be about Nature's wrath, and how it's a sulking, spoilt bitch.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: TnT on April 05, 2006, 07:30:34 am
Okay, I haven't gotten Redeemer yet but I made a realization while reading my favorite book from Zhuangzi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuangzi).

Nature exists but not like you or me.  It has no feeling, no thought, no actions.  It just is, yet its influence on this world is infinite.  Man, in their finite lives and limited wisdom, seek to fight and contain that which is boundless, and thus we will always lose.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trias on April 09, 2006, 08:20:18 pm
ok while I am desperately waiting for my redeemer... er like the album I mean... I'd like to go back to the interpretation of fury. only having heard the live version I think it's a damn cool song, and from the flow
of the music I like the epic, more literal fantasy interpretation of fighting a dragon best... even if this is not what is meant.

Maybe it is both. I wonder if there is anything speaking against the fantasy interpretation itself.

One line maybe:

"The beast is hunting for a prey that can not die". Wonder what that beast is...


the song might also fit the description of a comet or something...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: phattmann on April 09, 2006, 08:25:24 pm
Fury IS about a storm, comparing it to a mighty beast in the sky, hunting, doing stuff, yada yada yada... just read the lyrics (aforementioned link, or http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/lyrix/fury.txt ) and work it out for yourself, it seems obvious. It's sorta a metaphor, really...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mumppis on April 09, 2006, 08:53:42 pm
i know the reaper = anti religion song
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 08:58:17 pm
Fury IS about a storm, comparing it to a mighty beast in the sky, hunting, doing stuff, yada yada yada... just read the lyrics (aforementioned link, or http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/lyrix/fury.txt ) and work it out for yourself, it seems obvious. It's sorta a metaphor, really...

Really? I thought "will always be the dragon fury rhyme" confirmed for me it was about a dragon, not a storm. But meh. I'm always wrong.


EDIT: See? I'm always wrong. You're right.

Quote
An ancient beast that occupies the high above
A raging monster to be fearful of
Simple aggression purely spawned from Mother Earth
a true impression of the might of her
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 09, 2006, 09:00:15 pm
"will always be the dragon fury rhyme"

The dragon fury could also be a storm... That actually sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 09:00:55 pm
"will always be the dragon fury rhyme"

The dragon fury could also be a storm... That actually sounds pretty cool.

I corrected myself 8 seconds after you posted that, noobling!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 09, 2006, 09:08:55 pm
It's about a storm, yes. Or more epically about the power of mother nature, as demonstrated by a storm. :)

Now, please go on to discuss other songs. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Trias on April 09, 2006, 09:10:55 pm
yeah, of course, I will just put the CD into the... damn  :'(
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Tatonarf on April 09, 2006, 09:11:43 pm
It's about a storm, yes. Or more epically about the power of mother nature, as demonstrated by a storm. :)

Now, please go on to discuss other songs. :)

Neva!!!!!!!! Hmm im think that song Fury is about a dragon.....
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 09:15:15 pm
Rogue world asylum. As awesome as it is, i am oblivious to it's actual meaning..
Any ideas?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 09, 2006, 09:17:44 pm
Something about that you should be careful not to seperate people (like in building a wall between them) or your future will end in debris?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Crazywater on April 09, 2006, 09:19:00 pm
Umm... maybe it is about our personal freedom more and more limited by law? (e.g. after 9/11...)

Edit: Remember the sentence in the CD case of DXM 2nd?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 09, 2006, 09:41:56 pm
Edit: Remember the sentence in the CD case of DXM 2nd?

You mean the one that's the same as the one in the 1st print?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 09, 2006, 09:43:02 pm
Must be a great satisfaction to sit back and watch people discuss what the meanings to your songs are, with such intent to solve each song too! im not in a humourous mood today, just quite insightful =) so this is what sober is like.. woahh..
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Crazywater on April 09, 2006, 09:46:13 pm
Edit: Remember the sentence in the CD case of DXM 2nd?

You mean the one that's the same as the one in the 1st print?
Unfortunately, I don't have the 1st print...

by the way... is hate the thing that's beneath the surface? ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 09, 2006, 09:58:42 pm
No, that's a ghost beneath the surface... ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Crazywater on April 09, 2006, 10:16:55 pm
what if hate is that ghost?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 09, 2006, 10:17:59 pm
Then there would be two songs about the same thing.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 10:22:45 pm
what if hate is that ghost?

I don't think ghost and hate are the same thing.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Turin on April 09, 2006, 10:24:43 pm
Fury IS about a storm, comparing it to a mighty beast in the sky, hunting, doing stuff, yada yada yada... just read the lyrics (aforementioned link, or http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/lyrix/fury.txt ) and work it out for yourself, it seems obvious. It's sorta a metaphor, really...

Its not about a storm.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 10:31:15 pm
Its not about a storm.

It's not?

It's about a storm, yes. Or more epically about the power of mother nature, as demonstrated by a storm. :)

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 09, 2006, 10:33:54 pm
sorry but, burn.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 09, 2006, 10:38:14 pm
sorry but, burn.

 :(
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 09, 2006, 11:29:10 pm
sorry but, burn.

 :(

Not you, turin :D
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Cerapter on April 10, 2006, 12:39:54 am
I sense Reanimator is about ignorance; people who won't act, who just follow the masses and not see the problem. It might be political and against nationalism/trusting one's leader, or it might be against the general ignorance in our society.

I don't think I can get much more specific than that without over-analyzing, and it's also highly possible I've completely misinterpreted it already.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: not12x on April 10, 2006, 05:42:37 am
Rogue World Asylum is a social commentary on how our world is devolving.  "die mauer" is german for the wall... i see a lot of references to the Berlin Wall.  i think that its an extended metaphor for how we have been blinded by something (government?  media?  both?), and how this social and mental berlin wall is constraining us, but if we try hard enough, we can knock down the wall ("our future in debris"... torn down walls are considered debris).  the "She" in question is the world, i think, how its been blinded, as i said earlier, and how currently we are so convoluted that we "breathe death", in how we are totally oblivious, and how we are destroying the world and oruselves.

just my .02 on that song

Edit: Not going to go as in-depth on this one, but I Know The Reaper seems to NOT be about the act of fearing death, but rather about fearing the idea of being forgotten, or fear of the afterlife.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Frigger on April 10, 2006, 02:00:51 pm
the fear of being forgotten pretty much = the fear of death me thinks.....

and the "she" talked about in rogue world asylum is probably the little word "freedom". it also talks about how it's damaged due to fear ,"as we search for what to follow in the >>night<<"

"She breathes death inside
as we keep trying to nurture her with lies
Now scorched her eyes are blind
Though given time she can recover if we try"

why "freedom", and not "the World" ?. the eyes are pretty much the word which give this metaphor more sense, and a theoretical thing like freedom you can nurture far easier with lies than "the world".... ;P
and well, "walls" are used as a symbol of the destruction of freedom, thats quite obvious, aight?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 10, 2006, 06:35:01 pm
Impressive... ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Schattenjaeger on April 11, 2006, 05:35:04 am
After sharing Seventeen with a few friends I both want and don't want that song hitting the American public... because it openly slanders the US' actions concerning Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I do not support the war in any way shape or form, but there are lots of people who do. I can almost see the controversial news coverage!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on April 11, 2006, 05:38:58 am
After sharing Seventeen with a few friends I both want and don't want that song hitting the American public... because it openly slanders the US' actions concerning Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I do not support the war in any way shape or form, but there are lots of people who do. I can almost see the controversial news coverage!

It'll be about as controversial as NOFX's Murder the government....
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Schattenjaeger on April 11, 2006, 06:04:18 am
Oh fine kill the atmosphere! As I've never heard of that song, I can guess that you mean no one will care.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: not12x on April 11, 2006, 06:58:12 am
Meh, seventeen would never hit the airwaves on anyhting other tahn college radio in america.  90-95% of the radiostations are owned by Clear Channel.  the same people that own Fox.  the same people that own our president.

yaeh, not going to happen.  but it would be fun, just becuase i like conflict.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WNivek on April 11, 2006, 07:03:15 am
Following a message Schattenjäger sent me, I took a look at Oki Kuma's Adventure.
To my eye, it would appear to be about Joss Whedon's canceled TV series, Firefly.

"I look at the sky as my own" - relates to "You can't take the sky from me", from The Ballad of Serenity, Firefly's opening title theme.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me" - direct quote from characters Kaylee and River in episode 10: 'War Stories'
"my chest holds a heart of gold" - potentially a dual reference to 'The Message', where a war buddy Tracey is found to have faked death to smuggle enhanced orgins in himself (before the death is revealed to be fake and the organs discovered, the character Jayne conjectures that there might be gold inside Tracey), and also to the title of an unaired episode titled 'Heart of Gold'

Would be interesting if we could get an english-translation of the Japanese portion of the song.

In hindsight, the Buffy musical quote inside the case was probably a reference to there being something Whedon-related somewhere in Redeemer.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 11, 2006, 09:53:53 am
Would be interesting if we could get an english-translation of the Japanese portion of the song.

Rob said somewhere at some point that it was basically just the chorus in Japanese.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Armakuni on April 12, 2006, 12:13:20 pm
"I know the reaper" isnt about fear of death, its the opposite -.-
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on April 12, 2006, 02:00:31 pm
"I know the reaper" isnt about fear of death, its the opposite -.-

Necrophilia?  ;) :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on April 12, 2006, 02:03:46 pm
Oh fine kill the atmosphere! As I've never heard of that song, I can guess that you mean no one will care.

What the hell? If you don't have the album/haven't heard the song why are you here? You seem to lack self-restraint.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: JariWolf on April 12, 2006, 02:47:44 pm
Oh fine kill the atmosphere! As I've never heard of that song, I can guess that you mean no one will care.

What the hell? If you don't have the album/haven't heard the song why are you here? You seem to lack self-restraint.

I think he meant the NOFX song.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MashedByMachines on April 14, 2006, 12:33:46 pm
I think that I know the reaper is about that there is no life after death, and by be remember amongst your friends when you die makes you immortal (not really)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: cake on April 15, 2006, 11:07:55 pm
After sharing Seventeen with a few friends I both want and don't want that song hitting the American public... because it openly slanders the US' actions concerning Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I do not support the war in any way shape or form, but there are lots of people who do. I can almost see the controversial news coverage!

i seriously doubt it will go as far as to be covered on the news. i seriously doubt it will be a big deal at all.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: furinto on April 16, 2006, 12:30:52 am
"Ronin" is pretty clearly about moving through life alone. It could also be a sort of love song, trying to convince the loved one to abandon what they're doing to follow the speaker and be together.

"Kaori Stomp" was said to be a love song in a different thread, but honestly I just don't see it.

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: H on April 16, 2006, 01:06:32 pm
After sharing Seventeen with a few friends I both want and don't want that song hitting the American public... because it openly slanders the US' actions concerning Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I do not support the war in any way shape or form, but there are lots of people who do. I can almost see the controversial news coverage!

I'm in Texas (Down south in the U.S. of A.), I have Redeemer in my CD player right now, & the lyrics do not bother me one bit. o_o
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 16, 2006, 08:08:36 pm
Oh fine kill the atmosphere! As I've never heard of that song, I can guess that you mean no one will care.

What the hell? If you don't have the album/haven't heard the song why are you here? You seem to lack self-restraint.

I think he meant the NOFX song.

Yea, but hey.. handbags are fourty paces ladies.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on April 17, 2006, 04:35:10 am
Oh fine kill the atmosphere! As I've never heard of that song, I can guess that you mean no one will care.

What the hell? If you don't have the album/haven't heard the song why are you here? You seem to lack self-restraint.

I think he meant the NOFX song.

Silence! My logic is flawless!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 17, 2006, 03:42:54 pm
Im supporting SpeedD all of today, just today.

EDIT: oh yes, FLAWLESS! YES! FLAWLESS!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Numorfeo on April 18, 2006, 06:12:30 am
Since it seemed like nobody could decide on what exactly I Know the Reaper is about, and since the song is one of my favorites from Redeemer, and also because I have a lot of time on my hands and have been looking for an excuse to sign up, I decided to dissect it; break it down, if you will:

"It ain't always merry
to notice there's a line
Life is kinda scary
when you are left behind"

This sets the stage: Death is something real, is often hard to grasp, and can be downright intimidating at times.  Nobody's really happy when they realize that there's a fine line between life and death, and that there's no coming back once you cross it.  It can be particularly hard to accept when you come to this realization as a result of someone close to you leaving.  The sense of abandonment is tough to cope with.

"All the loved ones lost to you
used to be somewhere
you know you will follow too
and you don't really care to just go nowhere

And so you keep them all alive
(In your head)"

Once you can accept that they are gone and not coming back, the next step is to understand that you will also leave someday.  You're not sure where they went, but you know that you will eventually go there as well.  Not wanting to think that they're really not anywhere at all, you create a place for them to stay.  Believing that they exist somewhere is a comforting thought to you.  It allows you to feel better about dying, knowing that you'll soon go to the same place that you created for your loved ones.  If this place didn't exist, you'd wind up going to "nowhere," exactly what you want to avoid.

"I tell you I know The Reaper
No light and no eternal life
(what I said)
I tell you I know The Reaper

sweetest of all lies
one of everlasting life"

Essentially, your way of thinking is wrong.  As lovely as it sounds, the fact is you don't actually go anywhere.  Once you die, it's over.  You don't live on with everyone else, not in this world; not in another.  This coming from somebody that knows death personally.

"No one wants to die
but we do, so we hide
What you fail to realize
is there's no need to fear
you live on in the hearts and minds
of those who hold you dear, who are right here

All the others
They already know The Reaper"

The other reason we create such a fantasy world is that we are scared of dying.  If we convince ourselves that we live on after dying, then it's as if we never died at all.  But as it turns out, while we don't live on in our own created sense, we do live on in some sense.  Our loved ones that are still alive will hold our memories so that we are not forgotten.  Basically, they understand how things work, and can create a world in their own mind for people they have lost.  The difference being that it's not a world in which those people are waiting.  It is simply a world of thoughts and memories, though nothing more.  Knowing that something of you will be alive somewhere can give you the strength to face death without fear.

"And so you keep yourself alive
(in your head)
You don't wanna know The Reaper"

That being said, it's still not as though anybody actually wants to die.  Thus, you start making preparations.  You create your own memory of yourself as a sort of heirloom to pass on after you're gone.  And while you're here, you keep this memory alive by accomplishing whatever you can while you're still around.


SUMMARY: The song is pretty much about fear of death: both about how commonplace it is and is understandable to some extent, and about how you need to overcome this fear at some point.  You could also stretch it a little and find undertones of carpe diem.  At least, that's how I see it.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 18, 2006, 12:16:18 pm
Very good.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 18, 2006, 02:41:20 pm
thats very profound.. wish i knew if it was right, ill assume by robs "very good" that it was infact "very good".

now, back to staring at letter box for the redeemer album.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: NovaProspekt on April 19, 2006, 07:04:50 am
Can someone try disecting TTLG? I can't figure out what that song is about.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ekemnoch on April 19, 2006, 01:00:33 pm
Just a little question : in Rogue World Asylium, does "and now they build another wall again" have anything to do with the Israelien wall ?

Or is it just a metaphoresis to mean "something seperating people, we have to break it down to live in peace" ?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 19, 2006, 06:03:46 pm
Good again ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 19, 2006, 08:22:50 pm
Rob, stop talking in riddles and tell us what the songs are about! ;) :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on April 19, 2006, 08:47:27 pm
Rob, stop talking in riddles and tell us what the songs are about! ;) :P

It's not fun like that though.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 19, 2006, 08:57:21 pm
Whurd MOTHERFUCKER.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 19, 2006, 10:43:14 pm
Yes, that's about the level of interference I'm prepared to provide... I'll let you guys know when you're doing good. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: The Erland on April 20, 2006, 08:26:51 pm
Hmm, I think I will try to do Rise in the same style that Numorfeo did with I Know The Reaper (very good post btw), so here goes:

Ever since I knew the hive
I’ve been accumulating misery


I think the "I" person is getting tired of people following the crowd, without brains, like in an hive, where all the insects act without thought, only taking the orders from the queen, or in this case, the big companies.


But I can see there are those who thrive
bloom in the age of Realityâ„¢


A lot of companies make a lot of money of the mindless people. People that have to drink Cola, wear Diesel or Levis clothes and stuff like that. I think the TM shows this.


Like legion they rise, my doomsday device

There are endless hoards of these people, and there are more and more people joining the ranks. I'm not sure about the doomsday device thing, but he might think that they will be the doom of us all.


Inside, Somewhere inside
A different light, A different mind
Inside, Somewhere inside
I’d like to find a different kind of you


Inside us all, even the mindless ones, there is a living, thinking brain that can think for itself. Or so he hopes.


And in the urban hell where I live
jaded like strays in the street
white trash scattering their “cribs”
no more than assholes with feet


I don't fully get this one, for the first four lines it seems like he is talking about people moving away from the mainstream, then in the last line he calls them worthless. The only possible solution I can see is that he thinks the people are trying to be different, but still are subject to the mainstream, they are making the new mainstream. (I might be wrong on this one, as some of the english is a bit difficult for me.)


And somewhere along the line it seems
that “pimp” became cool and punk mainstream


The mainstream changes, like mentioned in the last verse, but it doesn't change anything.


This is really just speculation, so I'd love to get some feedback on this.  :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Frigger on April 20, 2006, 10:30:32 pm
good....

hehe, no, honestly, sounds good, i cant be as smug as robert ^^. and in the stanza you dont understand, i think its just talking about the people around him and being cussy about them, more directly than before.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on April 21, 2006, 01:29:13 pm
"Cribs" is an MTV show where famous celebrities guide the viewers around their multi-million dollar mansions. All this:

And in the urban hell where I live
jaded like strays in the street
white trash scattering their “cribs”
no more than assholes with feet

is about how while the masses are living in rented apartments and crappy urban life, these Celebrities are showing off their money as if they deserve it.

This bit:

And somewhere along the line it seems
that “pimp” became cool and punk mainstream

is about how things that were once so alternative and underground like Pimps (i.e. people who make money from prostitutes) and Punk (an angry call for rebellion through music and style) have been taken by the media and corporations and turned into the "in" thing.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on April 21, 2006, 02:57:13 pm
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0

Well. Chav's still have us outnumbered.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on April 21, 2006, 03:15:25 pm
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0

And so the point is proven.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ekemnoch on April 21, 2006, 07:31:04 pm
First thing, I think I gonna kill my neighbours, listening to Benassi Bros while I try to work for my exams... :D

Secondly, I heard Rogue World Asylium this morning, and so my question is : do "she" refears to "peace" or to "war" ?
I first thought it was peace (because it's something we're waiting for), but the other part of the lyrics seems to be about "war" : it blooms upon peaceful places, and wallows (I'm not sure "wallow" is as connoted than it is in french ["vautrer"]) in the "light" (metaphor ? It hides "light").

If I keep on the "Israelian wall-theory", "what to follow in the night" could be about religion (Islam//Jew), or maybe just "mainstream" (if we think about Berlin wall).

"She breathes death inside
as we keep trying to nurture her with lies"
In those lines, "she" could be standing for "war" : we nurture her with lies (cf mass destruction weapons // Irak), and it breathes death...

But
"Now scorched her eyes are blind
Though given time she can recover if we try"
Seems to be for peace ... ^^

I feel puzzled... Actually, I think I'm going wrong way ! If someone has a better idea...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jeppe on April 21, 2006, 08:25:19 pm

"She breathes death inside
as we keep trying to nurture her with lies"

In could be about how the world leaders lies (Iraqi war, anyone?) and how war always lays close by. On the outside, there is peace, but inside, war and death wants to break throught. The world peace today is quite fragile, in my opinion.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 21, 2006, 10:26:58 pm
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0

Well. Chav's still have us outnumbered.


you have chavs in your country? you know what a chav is?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on April 21, 2006, 10:40:57 pm
you have chavs in your country? you know what a chav is?

I thought chavs were loyal to England.
THE SCUM IS SPREADING FASTER THAN BIRDFLU! LOCK YOUR DOORS!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: HackNeyed on April 21, 2006, 11:04:53 pm
Has anyone else noticed how circular Redeemer is? hay dont look at me like that! I know its a compact “disk” but thats not what i'm referring to here.

Someone said the end to Empire felt a bit sudden and was also a bit odd since an 'extra' chorus is tacked to the end of the song. At 1st i wondered if the next album would start in such a way to give reason to such an odd ending... But now as i listen to Redeemer on repeat, the more i notice how i DONT really notice when the album ends and begins.

'Bow down before your gods, pay the price! ... Machinae is rebelling' and on into how Elite they are... hmm this would be boss on an 8-track, since when has Machinae needed rewind or ff anyway?

P.S. i thought i'd spam this here since its not worth a new topic
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: L'homme magique on April 22, 2006, 03:35:45 am
Quote
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0
Punk has been mainstream, which is something that goes against the entire punk aesthetic/ideology. It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Frigger on April 22, 2006, 12:24:11 pm
we had the "she" thing earlier in this topic
imho its freedom :x
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Numorfeo on April 22, 2006, 12:53:36 pm
Ooh, good work with Rise.  I thought it was overall pretty obvious, but you guys managed to pull a few things that I missed.

Anyway, someone wanted Through the Looking Glass, and since I didn't quite get it either, and since it's 4 AM and I've got nothing else to do, I figured I'd take a look [through the glass].

I can feel the sands of time
passing through the hourglass
and it shimmers in my eyes
as I linger in the wake
as eternity escapes
I begin to realize

I can see a lot of imagery in this verse, a lot of which plays off of the usage of "shimmers" (1.  To shine with a subdued flickering light. 2. To appear as a wavering or flickering image, as in a reflection on water or through heat waves in air. [dictionary.com]).  This shimmering could refer to light reflecting off the glass of the timepiece, or the heat waves radiating off the sand (sand is usually associated with heat, due to being found mostly in beaches and deserts.)  I prefer both, though like the sand one better as it lends more to the image of the wake.  These heat waves could be similar to those created by boats passing by, but with a more mesmerizing effect due to the heat.  People don't like to exert much energy under high temperatures, and it seems the narrator is no different.  This would leave him unable to do much besides watching the time pass in this hourglass and thinking: ultimately about life itself.  Effectively, heat-induced philosophizing.


We'll walk a thousand miles just to see for ourselves
Look behind our eyes
find our hell
And in the light of the sun we go
Through rain and raging snow
to find the things we do not know

What he figured out was that we live for the pursuit of knowledge.  We'll walk incredible distances through harsh conditions just to witness something new with our own two eyes.  Sure, someone could just tell us what we don't know, or describe somewhere we haven't yet been, but it's just not enough.  We need to experience it personally in order to fully understand and appreciate it.

As for the eyes part, I've got two ideas.  One is that looking behind our eyes refers to looking at our brain.  We can see that while it is quite astounding, it is being wasted.  And to see such advanced structures sit there and rot tortures our soul, forcing us to go and use it to its full potential by learning all that we can.  The other is that we try to look behind our eyes, but can't, and therefore see nothing.  And it is this nothing that is our hell, and we seek to avoid such a fate by filling the void with anything we can.

I will go
never laying low
just tell me how to breathe
and I will make it so
You must know
that this is not for show
and if you are not wise (it will)
be your demise

And so we decide to go out and do and learn everything there is without fear.  As long as we are given basic survival skills beforehand (like inhaling and exhaling at regular intervals), we will do this.  We don't make this choice to become superior to others: we do it out of necessity.  If we don't educate ourselves, we won't be able to adapt, and as a result will die.  Both as individuals, and as a species.

Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery

We now listen to the narrator's personal tale of self-enrichment.  Previously, such treks had been nothing but bothers, causing nothing but distress.  However, this time was different.  With his new mind-set of observation and discovery, he found new perspective.  He now saw "beauty as a result of balance or harmonious arrangement [dictionary.com]" in what used to be deemed as worthless scenery.  The revelation that things like beauty and knowledge can be seen in everything caused a rush of creative thoughts to flood his head, which may have led him to writing his experiences down as a poem, which was later put to music to be adored by all the world.  >_>

I walked a thousand miles just to see for myself
looked behind my eyes
and found my hell

In conclusion, he had undertaken the journey and succeded.  He "looked behind his eyes" and discovered that what he had found, knowledge and discovery, was pure bliss, while his previous state, passive and satisfied, was pure hell.

We come to honor; to stand or die
to pass the hours of our lives
We burn the silence and all the lies
To fuel the fire inside our eyes
We all go!

Our existence comes down to recognizing and respecting what those before us have done, and choosing to continue the dream or to get out of the way so as not to hinder progress.  Also, there's probably an element of living for the sake of living.  Naturally there will be those who are not supportive of our causes: those who will spread their own truths hoping that we will accept them and keep quiet, and those that are accepting these truths and keeping quiet.  However, we will not listen to these unbacked statements.  Rather, we will discover the real truths on our own, and then encourage others to do the same.  Why do we do this?  It is our instinct: our primitive drive.

Come to honor
stand or die
Fuel that fire in your eyes.

The final closing statement an imperitive one: See what the others have done, and make a choice: Advance or fall.  This will be your fire, and you must do everything in your power to keep it burning.

SUMMARY: Knowledge is power!

The title itself is most likely referring to Lewis Carroll's book of the same title.  In it, Alice discovers a world very much like her own, though at the same time very different.  Things she had once taken for granted she was now second guessing; things assumed to be true were challenged.  In a sense, she was looking at her own world through a different eyes: ones that did not know anything, but longed to learn.  (I thought of this after typing the rest up, and couldn't fit it up there.  So it's awkwardly down here.)

Again, this is just how I see it.  Feel free to question its accuracy.  After all, the song seems to advocate such behavior.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on April 22, 2006, 02:41:11 pm
we had the "she" thing earlier in this topic
imho its freedom :x

It is.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on April 22, 2006, 08:40:24 pm
we had the "she" thing earlier in this topic
imho its freedom :x

It is.

And with that said Rob decends back into the darkness to leave us guessing about the rest of the songs.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: McLame on April 23, 2006, 03:52:20 am
The Netherlands have had proper Chavs long before we did. Ours were just lowly townies when they started tucking their socks into their tracksuit bottoms in the Netherlands
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on April 23, 2006, 04:15:10 am
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0

Well. Chav's still have us outnumbered.


you have chavs in your country? you know what a chav is?

The Netherlands have had proper Chavs long before we did. Ours were just lowly townies when they started tucking their socks into their tracksuit bottoms in the Netherlands

..
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: TimChaos on April 26, 2006, 08:51:23 am
After sharing Seventeen with a few friends I both want and don't want that song hitting the American public... because it openly slanders the US' actions concerning Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I do not support the war in any way shape or form, but there are lots of people who do. I can almost see the controversial news coverage!

well hey im not offended by any of their lyrics, and im christian/republician/love the USA!

i believe everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, whether it be in music or protests or whatever. i simply ask that my opinions are allowed to be voiced as well in return (im talking in general, not in these forums or whatever). i may not AGREE with your opinion, but i dont really care, its your believe, not mine, which makes it an opinion!

i appreciate good music for what it is, and this is definately good music.

i doubt it would make an impact. have you heard system of a down? and many other bands in america? half our country hates ourself!!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Vortex on April 26, 2006, 10:05:00 am
"The republicans and democrats can talk about government all they want, woo, its the government. And they talk about it like its a building thats walking around and doing shit. Government is human beings, thats what the fuck it is. And the reason government sucks is because none of the human beings have any fucking common sense, thats why, and none of us do. It would be nice if we could get someone to teach us it...b-b-but who the fuck are we going to get? We have common sense occasionally, occasionally you see people go, "look! There it is!". And then its GONE"

-Lewis Black

I like this guy's stuff, I got all sorts of his standup stuff on my computer. Everything basically pisses him off :D
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on April 26, 2006, 10:55:53 am
Punk is already mainstream here, i think o.0

Well. Chav's still have us outnumbered.


you have chavs in your country? you know what a chav is?

The Netherlands have had proper Chavs long before we did. Ours were just lowly townies when they started tucking their socks into their tracksuit bottoms in the Netherlands

..


sweet.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: TimChaos on May 01, 2006, 01:20:24 am
so yeah...what was the topic of this thread again? somethin about meaning of songs? ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on May 01, 2006, 02:39:57 am
About what someone said about the Japanese lyrics in Oki Kuma's Adventure:
It can't really be the chorus in Japanese, because even if I don't know much Japanese, I think it starts with "Kuma wa", which means "bear is". And there is no trace of "bear" in the English lyrics.

I could maybe get it translated through a friend who translates most of the translated manga sold in Sweden, if no forumite wants to give it a try?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on May 01, 2006, 11:28:46 am
Or just read the lyrics on the website... The translation is right there.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on May 01, 2006, 11:53:59 am
About what someone said about the Japanese lyrics in Oki Kuma's Adventure:
It can't really be the chorus in Japanese, because even if I don't know much Japanese, I think it starts with "Kuma wa", which means "bear is". And there is no trace of "bear" in the English lyrics.

Remember the title of the song? ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ChronoTrigger on May 01, 2006, 11:59:48 am
My friend who studies Japanese says that Oki Kumas Adventure is like "Adventure of the Sea Bear" in English.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on May 01, 2006, 12:07:51 pm
My friend who studies Japanese says that Oki Kumas Adventure is like "Adventure of the Sea Bear" in English.

oki kuma no bokun

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on May 01, 2006, 02:44:45 pm
Or just read the lyrics on the website... The translation is right there.

Whoops... Hadn't seen that  :-[
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Megascorcher on May 02, 2006, 06:19:25 am
TTLG analysis P1

This response is to Numorfeo's whole post, I just didn't include his post here cause I'm trying not to hurt everyone's eyes (and I'm also a noob to message boards so I don't understand the quoting thing).

I don't know about some of the stuff anylized here from TTLG, and this is kinda confirmed by the fact that this post didn't get a "good job" from Robert (maybe he didn't feel like reading all that though).  In all fairness though, TTLG is a very complicated if not confusing song, so I can't blame anyone for not being able to pull off a flawless analysis of it.

Anyway, I'm gonna give it my go, since lyrically this is my favorite song...and I thought maybe I should atleast know on a conscious level why I like it so much.  Here goes:

First of all the title: Through the Looking Glass, although it is a reference to Lewis Carroll's book, I think it's meant to set one of the themes of the song, the importance of looking our own minds (looking glass is another word for mirror, in case anyone doesn't know).

Anyhow, the song starts out as follows:

I can feel the sands of time
passing through the hourglass
and it shimmers in my eyes
as I linger in the wake
as eternity escapes
I begin to realize

Alright, since the chorus has a lot to do with walking long distances, I'm going to guess that's kind of the setting of the song, and that's what the narrator is doing right now.  The first 2 lines, I think are really just a pretty way of saying "I feel time going by."  The thing is, the imagery used here emphasizes how much time is going by.  (My brother says it's to emphasize that time is running out, but that doesn't fit so well with my overall analysis.)  The narrator is going through a long repetitive walk all alone, and unless you are walking for the sake of walking, that can be very boring and draining, both physically and mentally.  There are several ways how the imagery gives this feeling.
1. Sand moves through an hourglass in a continuous fashion, and if you watch one it shows a physical effect in the passing of time (opposed to watching a clock which is really just monotonous and boring).  The key thing when watching time pass through an hourglass, is that you develop this deep association with the build up of sand and how much time goes by; it has impact.
2.  Hourglasses are really outdated, and using this imagery adds this kind of mystique associated with all kinds of old tools that are still around simply because mankind does not want to forget them.  Also, the oldness of the hourglass is in of itself another emphasis of how much time is going by for the narrator.  The reason for using hourglass imagery as opposed to a clock,is that a clock is much more efficient, and efficiency is not really associated with long amounts of time.
3. As mentioned above the continuity of the sand movement gives this kind of flowing feeling that we associate with the continuous passage of time.  A ticking clock does not have this effect, and psychologically it just doesn't serve as a good representation of the passage of time, cause the hand of a clock often moves in jerks.

Anyway, onward.  As for the shimmering part, I thing Numorfeo is pretty close on what he says about it, in the sense that the idea of seeing heat waves tells us that the narrator's vision may be fading due to all of his constant walking.

Now, as for lingering in the wake, I'm not actually sure this has to do with the wake of the boat, but it may actually have to do with the narrator's state of wakefullness itself.  Lingering in the wake means that he is very close to passing out, and is really barely conscious as he walks.

Then, all of the sudden, "eternity escapes" or in other words, the narrator has a revelation.  He know longer feels like his walk is going on forever, he understands what it is he was searching for. (It's even said there: "I begin to realize.")

This transitions into the narrator's revelation (I really like the way this song is set up, because narrator's chain of thought is very well depicted).

We'll walk a thousand miles just to see for ourselves
Look behind our eyes
find our hell
And in the light of the sun we go
Through rain and raging snow
to find the things we do not know


The first line talks about the importance of seeing something for yourself, and having your own experience (I think this was covered well by Numorfeo).  The second and third line are also already well explained by Numorfeo. However, the feeling I got from "looking behind our eyes" was that our hell, is in our mind...a "we are our own worst enemy" sort of thing.  My initial feeling was that the lines here are meant to describe the act of trying to look into your mind (goes along with the title), however I realize that it may have a smaller meaning in addition to this one.  That is, this also describes how we go to great lengths to see something, and when we look back we realize all the time we wasted, hence, we are in hell (and we brought it upon ourselves).  This idea also serves as an example to how our own hell can be in our minds.  (If this is true, than that line has a very deep double meaning).

The fourth and fifth lines kind of contradict each other, because the sun usually isn't out when it's raining or snowing.  I think that the fourth line therefore, is using "light of the sun" to mean hope, or the hope of seeing the sun, or put even better, the hope of finally coming to our revelation in our long journey, as we struggle against the elements and the wearing down of our bodies and mind.  I feel this idea here is confirmed by sixth line, in that is says we are trying "to find the things we do not know."

Now, on tho the next part

I will go
never laying low
just tell me how to breathe
and I will make it so
You must know
that this is not for show
and if you are not wise (it will)
be your demise

This next part, I'm really not super sure about, but I will try my best.  Quite honestly I think Numorfeo has a good handle on what Robert's talking about here.  The only thing that I would add to his interpretation, is that The lines 5-8, are talking about that if you to pursue knowledge solely for the sake of showing it off to others, and not to use it for yourself, it will destroy you.  As for lines 1-4, it's like Numorfeo says, the narrator is telling us that all is required for his fearless pursuit of knowledge, is merely just knowing how to be alive.

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Megascorcher on May 02, 2006, 06:20:16 am
TTLG analysis Part 2

Alright, I'm past the halfway point...

Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery

Now, "another nightmare in my mind" implies to me that this experience of walking, was again a realization of how we find hell in ourselves, and another instance were the narrator found himself walking for knowledge.  So, this is yet another walking experience it seems.  This time it seems that the narrator experienced what it is like to see beauty in all things, and this lead him to be overcome with the images of things he previously considered disgusting or distasteful.  I think that fearful symmetry refers to this idea, that everything, absolutely everything can be perceived as beautiful in some way, and the symmetry is fearful because the narrator is beholding the power of this revelation.

Alright, the next part just repeats the beginning of the second part of the song.

I walked a thousand miles just to see for myself
looked behind my eyes
and found my hell


The difference is that this part refers to the narrator's personal experience of finding hell in his mind as opposed to the second part of the song which refers to general human nature that predisposes us to find hell in our minds. (That was really obvious and was just their for continuity's sake).  The importance of this part of the song is really just to emphasize the idea of experiencing something for yourself, but on a personal level as in the narrator is documenting his own experence of trying to find his own experience.  (That was pretty obvious too).

The last part is really meant to sum up some observations about human beings.

We come to honor; to stand or die
to pass the hours of our lives
We burn the silence and all the lies
To fuel the fire inside our eyes
We all go!


Burning the lies to fuel the fire, is refering to how the pursuit of knowledge and new experience, is what makes us feel alive.  "We all go!," is simply meant to add some inspirational oomf,  Kind of like "Lets go Yankees!."  The first part I'm really not sure about though.  I guess it's talking about making a choice, to follow our instinct for knowledge, or simply fade form society and die.  Passing the hours of our lives, means that by making the choice for knowledge, you will truly be alive, cause if you don't pursue knowledge, you have no hours to pass.  As for what it is we are coming to honor, is probably the pursuit of knowledge (which I do honor...go me!).

I don't need to say much for the last part, it just somes up the part that I just talked about (Yes a summary of a summary.)  However the meaning of,

Come to honor
stand or die
Fuel that fire in your eyes.


is obviously enough: a call to all of us to make the choice for the pursuit of knowledge.

To quote Numorfeo: "Knowledge is Power "

Just to clarify, I never use the word revelation in a religious sense.  (In case someone heavily religious reads this).
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on May 02, 2006, 01:20:58 pm
I understand the song, but I'm still unclear as to the meaning of the title. As you say it could be half Lewis Carroll reference, half the idea of a mirror representing looking into yourself. Being as there is little in the song in the way of finding about onesself and more about finding new experiences, I don't think the mirror aspect fits. Instead I go wholly with the Lewis Carroll connection. In the Alice books Alice goes down a rabbit hole/through a looking glass and finds herself in a new strange world. Within this world, she prospers on and discovers new things and new experiences however bizarre, odd or plain silly they are and she never actually stops until she wakes up from her dream. It is this persuit of new things by Alice that I believe the title refers to.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Spunky on May 02, 2006, 01:40:57 pm
All songs are EMO, mkay? EMO!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ~futilite~ on May 17, 2006, 07:44:06 pm
I understand the song, but I'm still unclear as to the meaning of the title. As you say it could be half Lewis Carroll reference, half the idea of a mirror representing looking into yourself. Being as there is little in the song in the way of finding about onesself and more about finding new experiences, I don't think the mirror aspect fits. Instead I go wholly with the Lewis Carroll connection. In the Alice books Alice goes down a rabbit hole/through a looking glass and finds herself in a new strange world. Within this world, she prospers on and discovers new things and new experiences however bizarre, odd or plain silly they are and she never actually stops until she wakes up from her dream. It is this persuit of new things by Alice that I believe the title refers to.

I don't want to say that the idea of the "Lewis Carroll meaning" in the title is wrong but I've got an explanation for the other posibility.
It is kind of irony: You want to find yourself, but you don't succeed and instead you find new experiences and/or a new look at the world and so on... (like you already mentioned)
That's my point of view.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on May 17, 2006, 08:05:52 pm
This thread is a good example why we need karma back. I've read all those interesting interpretations, agree with some of them and want to sort of recognize the effort people put into this. On the other hand I cbfed to make a long post saying just that.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on May 20, 2006, 01:16:44 pm
I agree. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MDX on May 20, 2006, 03:34:41 pm
ah rob and his perfect karma :) +1 deservedly so!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bavi_H on May 22, 2006, 03:37:04 am

Through the Looking Glass

The part about a field may be the speaker describing the remains of a battlefield. After seeing the beautiful dead things, the speaker "surged with violent imagery," perhaps remembering the killing that took place there. Or maybe seeing dead things as beautiful has created a desire to kill.

As others have mentioned, you have to look in a mirror to see your own eyes. Also the "symmetry" of the field might be caused by looking into a mirror at an angle, the real world on one side and its reversed image behind the mirror. Maybe the mirror is a symbol for something, like history repeating itself?




Oki Kuma's Advenutre

The speaker of the song seems to be Oki Kuma (ChronoTrigger mentioned this means Sea Bear), also known as the hubnester. (I'm a little unclear if Oki Kuma (the speaker) is the same as the hubnester. The Japanese voice says "Kuma was a hero who saved the world. The legend of hubnester's fight will be told forever." so this makes me think the hunester is the same as Oki Kuma. But the speaker mentions the hubnester in the sky, suggesting it's something different from himself.)

The hubnester now "lies in a celestial path in the sky." So I guess the stars leading the speaker toward dawn indicates he is now a constellation moving through the sky. I thought this song might be about the story behind the Big Bear (Ursa Major) constellation. But the stories I found about the constellation don't seem to match the song.

The Legend(s) of Ursa Major (http://www.ufrsd.net/staffwww/stefanl/myths/ursamajor.htm)


What's a hubnester? Google only seems to return Machinae refrences to Hubnester Inferno, Hubnester Industries, and even Oki Kuma's Adventure. The word itself reminds me of the Nintendo emulator Nester, but I'm not sure if that's related.

I just found Hubnester Inferno (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/19371339/) on Robert's deviantart page (http://nordlander.deviantart.com/). Robert mentions Hubnester is a character in graphic novel he's working on. However, it sounds like hubnester is still more than one guy's name, like it's a position or title.




Kaori Stomp

Kaori seems to be a female that can fly (per the lyrics "You fly" and "Dance for me, the sky is the stage"). Perhaps she's a character from an anime or manga? (She has a Japanese name, and the lyrics "Eyes crazy, hair like a child" refer to her anime/manga-like apperance?) The speaker of the song seems to be expressing his love for Kaori, or at least his like for her, perhaps as an adoring fan.

"Kaori" from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaori)


Why "stomp"? Is it related to any of these definitions of stomp from Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Astomp)?

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ankle on May 22, 2006, 04:46:56 am
Kaori Stomp always makes me think about playing SSX as Kaori and getting some serious big air.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Numorfeo on May 24, 2006, 09:56:02 am
Ooh, good work, Megascorcher.  I would've really liked to delve more into the imagery of the first verse, but it was late and I knew it would've come out awful if I tried.  There's really so much there that lends to the idea of someone that has been wandering under harsh conditions for far too long.

An interesting take on the "find our hell" line.  However, I would think it seems to go against the rest of the song.  Saying that we are in hell when we realize how much time we spent doing something that we feel is right is a little contradictory.  The song tells you to see things for yourself, so we shouldn't feel bad about taking the time to do so.

Letting the sun represent hope is a nice addition to the piles of metaphors.  And it made me think of it another way: What if we changed the line to "in light of the sun"?  It could be saying that now that we know the sun is okay, let's see if other weather conditions are okay.  That is, keep exploring new things.  "We know x, so let's look at y."  It might be a bit of a stretch, but I like it.

And after reading the other comments on what the title could mean and the usage of "symmetry," I thought of some more things.  Symmetry has an inherent beauty to it.  A lot of things that people find attractive are partly because of their symmetric qualities.  I've also heard of many people that like to feel symmetric (for example, if they pound their fist against a wall with one hand, they'll do it with the other so that it feels the same.)  That said, perhaps the "fearful symmetry" was indeed a mirror.  You can't get more symmetric than a perfect mirror image, so such a sight would be pretty overwhelming.

Really though, this song offers so much imagery, metaphors, and who knows what else, it would probably need a separate topic.

I would think that the stomp in Kaori Stomp refers to the dance.  Why "stomp" specifically, I'm not sure.  Maybe "Kaori Mambo," "Kaori Hustle," and "Kaori Line Dance" all got rejected.  I would also think that the aerial references are no more than images, as if to say that it looks like Kaori is flying when she dances.  Also, "the sky is the stage" could be similar to "the sky's the limit," in that he doesn't want her to lose her passion for dancing.

Thinking about it now, it reminds me of Frodo's "Hellfire" from Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame:

Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul

I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control

Like fire
Hellfire
This fire in my skin
This burning
Desire
Is turning me to sin

He's obsessing over the gypsy Esmerelda, and the most interaction he's had with her was through watching her dance.  It would seem that dancing is an effective way of hypnotizing guys.

And as much as I'd love to jump on the Oki Kuma tangent, I'm tired...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Zilir on June 02, 2006, 05:18:04 am
I just got an insight on Oki Kuma! I get a feeling this is somewhat about the song "Mors lilla Olle"!


My burden an awful load
my chest holds a heart of gold
in the stories a child is told
a legend amongst the old
it speaks of a legacy
one of me and my family
And I burn for their right to survive
to be alive

All of this fits in to that song where this bear becomes a friend with this kid, but get's pushed away by the kids mother (a legacy of he and his family? Bears being killed and whatnot by humans for weird reasons!).
I think I'm too tired atm tho...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Numorfeo on June 02, 2006, 08:30:16 am
I looked at Oki Kuma, and all I could think of was the plot to some kind of RPG/anime or something.

In this context, I would think that there isn't just one Hubnester.  Rather, there are many hubnesters (I can't help but think of them as "the spirits of this world.")  Anyway, a long time ago, some nation/town/group of people was being bothered by some outside force (like a dragon, evil ruler person, harsh weather, etc.).  Some guy named Oki Kuma set out to stop this force, and apparently succeeded.  And when he died, (either from natural causes, wounds inflicted from his final battle with the enemy, or a sacrifice necessary to save his people) he became one of the hubnesters.  However, because of his courage, he was promoted to "Great Hubnester" (commonly referred to as simply Hubnester).  His legend was passed on for generations.

Present day: the evil has returned, and some other guy is gonna go stop it just like Oki Kuma did so long ago.  (Why him?  I don't know.  He could just be bored, or it's some sort of bloodline thing.)  And the song is pretty much reflecting the thoughts going through his head.  "I'm on this journey, and it's cold and I'm miserable.  I don't think I can do this.  *looks up and remembers The Great Hubnester is watching over him*  I can do this!  I WILL do this!"  Or something to that effect.

In addition, Hubnester Inferno can kind of tie into this theory.  Maybe it's describing what the adventure did to Oki Kuma and/or New Guy and his thoughts.  Their experiences most likely influenced the way they think, and in a very negative way.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Zilir on June 02, 2006, 05:49:42 pm
I just get a feeling that Oki Kumi is something of a tribute to bears (maybe even polar bears!) and that Oki Kuma is looking up at the star constellation Ursa Major (as Bavi_H said before).

Maybe I just want a bear of my own... But all I feel is compassion towards bears when I try to derive the lyrics :P
You have some pretty phat ideas about the songs tho Numorfeo, I can agree with practially all of it as being something that it would reflect.

Bears have also always been something of a metaphor for inner strength.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on June 02, 2006, 07:12:01 pm
Kaori Stomp always makes me think about playing SSX as Kaori and getting some serious big air.

EXACTLY!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Spacebar on June 02, 2006, 10:14:32 pm
just in case you didnt already figure this out...(iono if you did i kinda just skimmed the rest of the thread)

a ronin is a samurai with no master.

=]
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ankle on June 02, 2006, 11:10:38 pm
With all the talk of bears, here is a picture of one in my yard:

(http://ankle.sinistrals.net/misc/pictures/2006.05.28-bear_backyard.jpg)

He comes around every day, perhaps I should name him Oki Kumi?  :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on June 02, 2006, 11:30:13 pm
Play the song to him when he next visits, see if he reacts. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Zombie With Style on June 03, 2006, 09:22:28 am
I personaly see Oki Kumas Adventure as and epice battle between Kuma and Hubnester, Where Kuma is the good hero, and Hunester is some kind of dark warlord of demond of some kind. How? Compair the lyrics betweem Oki Kuma and Hubnester Inferno. There almost like black and white. Hubnester Inferno is in the perspective of Hubnesterof course, and Oki Kuma is obviosely in the perspective of Kuma.

I look at the sky as my own
and the light always warms my bones
but the light brings the dark in shadow
and somewhere inside I know

This is saying that kuma is on the side of light, and that he is obviousely a good guy whos saving the world. And that he knowns its his destiny to save the world because this power of his, the 'light' 'darkenss' the shadows, or distorys the forces of evil.

solely silently
I stand against the wind
And even though you see
you don't know where I've been

And here we have Hubnester perparing for battle. He knowns Kuma is comeing for him, and he is scared of this. He is scared of being distoryed by kumas great power and he dosen't want this to happen. So he tries to do what he must for him to win. The Wind is simply the pressure of waiting for a battle that he dosen't know when its going to happen.

It glows in the freezing night
the midwinter snow so white
in its celestial path in the sky
the great hubnester lies

The freezing, or snow is simpley the damage that Hubnester has done to the land and all the trouble and ruin it has been in. And it being White means that the damage is very great. Maybe a refference to first Narnia book where the main villian, the white witch, made the land she controled under her harsh rule forever winter. I dobt that thats what the band intended, but its still a good conection. And The celestail path is the journey Oki Kuma must take, that is long, far way, and mystical, kind of like the stars. And at the end is where the great Hubnester is.

You say that our dreams
come alive when we're awake
but I can't even sleep
my sanity will break

This resembles the downfall of Hunesters power. His dream was to rule the world, which he did for the longest time. But now his dreams are comeing down around him as Kuma triumps over his minions. So he can't 'sleep', meaning he can't kleep his dream alive. So he is loseing control of his power. And because of this, he is worried a lot about this.

I refuse to fail, to kneel or bow
No power in the 'verse can stop me now
Leading me towards the dawn of day
The stars above illuminate my way

Now heres Kumas veiw of the great journey. No matter what Hubnester throws at him, he'll he able to defeat it. And slowly but surly, he inchs closer and closer to Hubnester after ever battle. Which is leading him to 'the dawn of day' or the concering of the darkness. And the starts resemble the little bit of light coming through the darkness, which give him enough motive to continue.

so like the blink of an eye
just the second before a crash
time is standing still,
I am frozen, I can't feel

And finally we come to the epice battle between Oki Kuma and Hubnester. And Kuma defeats him quickly with all his strength. The corase is basically what happens at the end of the battle in the perspective of Hubnester. As soon as someone can blink, Kuma makes the final blow. And then time freezes for Hubnester right as he dies, which is a common effect in movies, books, and other things for a dramatice death scene, simpley because its cool  8). So Oki kuma is finnally the victore of the great battle.

anger, such a simple
yet powerful emotion
you'd think I could just rid myself
of these thoughts I stir to motion
Instinct pulls me under
I can't fight this on my own
my mind has become
the darkest place I've ever known

Basically Hubnesters life flashing before his eyes as he crosses into death. I see it as a complex though as he think of all the anger that has happened in his life that lead him into darkness. And so at the end of his life he releizes that this is not how it should have been, and that he let the darkness concer his soul.

My burden an awful load
my chest holds a heart of gold
in the stories a child is told
a legend amongst the old

And for defeating the dark Hubnester, Oki Kuma is now more then a hero, he is a legond. His load is the scares of battle he will carry forever, but he will never die off now, no matter what happen, even after he is no longer alive.

it speaks of a legacy
one of me and my family
And I burn for their right to survive
to be alive

This is basically saying that he was the one that saved his people and lead them to survive and carry on forever without the influence of Hubnester. And for this, he will never he forgotten

"Kuma was a hero who saved the world.
The Legend of hubnesters fight will be told forever"

A summary of the song/s
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: MashedByMachines on June 03, 2006, 03:47:03 pm
wow... interesting :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Spacebar on June 03, 2006, 08:08:08 pm
wow...really nice connection. very good job =]
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on June 03, 2006, 09:12:17 pm
What if Robert is just misleading us with the hubnester reference and Oki Kuma's Adventure is simply a summary of a children's film? The story sounds somewhat Disney-ish. Maybe I should watch Brother Bear.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Zombie With Style on June 03, 2006, 10:11:29 pm
Don't bother, the Oki Kuma dosen't match with anything about Brother Bear. And the only reason I know this is because I've...kind of seen the movie. I wasn't really paying attention to it while it was playing, but from what I caught, it wasn't like it...but then again I might have missed somthing, but why would the band torture themselfs into seeing some kid movie just to mess with the fans?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysander on June 03, 2006, 10:21:09 pm
TAKE A LOOK, THROUUUUUUUUUUGH MY EYEEEEEEES
THERES A BETTER PLACE SOMEWHERE OUT THERE
DOODODODODODODODODODOD

<3 Phil collinz
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: EizN on June 05, 2006, 03:57:12 am
through the looking glass, is a discription of someone looking back at their own life. and then the message is simply never give up. if you want something claim it. just to seek the truth go 1000 miles even if you just find your own hell. it's kinda still like one day at the time style but it says always live on the edge and move on
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on June 06, 2006, 05:49:41 am
And thats the part where your lover commits suicide and burns all of your posessions.


That's gotta suck, eh ?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on June 06, 2006, 11:25:09 am
And thats the part where your lover commits suicide and burns all of your posessions.


That's gotta suck, eh ?

You would know, wouldn't you?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SomethingApt on June 06, 2006, 12:14:58 pm
wouldnt it make more sense if she burned your possessions, THEN commits suicide?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on June 06, 2006, 05:53:20 pm
You would know, wouldn't you?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Smeagol on June 06, 2006, 06:11:48 pm
wouldnt it make more sense if she burned your possessions, THEN commits suicide?

Arsonist zombies ftl :(
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: EizN on June 07, 2006, 03:10:13 pm
wouldnt it make more sense if she burned your possessions, THEN commits suicide?

kinda would suck to have neither girlfriend or possessions. guess all there is left to do is become a buddist monk >_<
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: a sad cow on June 08, 2006, 12:19:38 am
before i noticed the lyrics posted, i transcribed Empire as

Bow down be-
fore your god
close your eyes

Bow down be
for your god
pay the price


which might not appear much, but i think "before" and "be for" is an important distinction, although you could switch them around...


EDIT:
another phonetic play

i'd like to find a different kind of you
i'd like to find a different kind of view

talking about contradictory perspectives (or paradigms for the snobbish :P )
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Crazywater on June 08, 2006, 04:01:20 pm
EDIT:
another phonetic play

i'd like to find a different kind of you
i'd like to find a different kind of view

talking about contradictory perspectives (or paradigms for the snobbish :P )
On first listen I heard "electrified" instead of "I'd like to find"...
but who cares?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Schattenjaeger on June 13, 2006, 12:47:43 pm
Brief jump back to RWA... there's something about the chorus I always saw but no one's mentioned yet.

Come with me and you will see
our future in debris
first the sun and now the stars are fading
In a rogue world we are free
we have found the colored keys
but I know that we are still here waiting

The first bit, about the future, I think it's literally saying that the way things are going, with, "walls," (obstacles, blockages, etc.) being put up all the time, keeping us away from freedom (as Rob said "she" is), our future is bleak and, rather, non-existant. "Our future in debris." The sun and stars fading away into non-existance only enhances this idea, that we'll just keep going like this until time ends or we destroy ourselves.

However, in a rogue (rogues are typically seen as lawless/without rules, or a law unto themselves) world, we're free from the restraint of all these walls and the things (governments, groups) that make them. The colored keys, I know for a fact many many games have colored keys in them that you have to find to get places. The Keen series, for example. The last line in the chorus, sounds like it's echoing the main point of Reanimator, that no one wants to do anything that takes actual effort, but rather let the world and their lives go on as it/they are. So instead of finding the keys, going through the walls and finding "her" (freedom), we just sit around and wait for someone to do it for us... but if no one does it, then we wait perpetually, and eventually the doomed future comes to be the present, as freedom is placed behind thicker and thicker walls.

EDIT: Missed a line =P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: a sad cow on June 14, 2006, 02:22:34 am
i keep listening to fury...i guess its a good song :P

anyway, i was thinking how funny it would be if the song wasn't really about a storm, Rob is just laughing at how gullible we are. i really do see the storm though   :-\ ....

on another note (talking about music....pun....heh...........i am so lame), this album is great music to work to. i've been looping it along with the sidologies all day.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lucien on July 04, 2006, 12:43:40 am
Greetings, here's a newcomer wishing to add some thoughts to the TTLG commentaries, totally ignoring that two weeks has passed since last reply.

One thing that I’ve noticed as absent is that the lyrics contain a direct quote from William Blakes “The Tyger” (full text: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html)), namely “fearful symmetry”.

I haven’t analysed the poem much myself, but an easy interpretation is that is a thoughtful look at a tiger (take you pick about what you want it to represent). Marvelling at both its beauty and ferociousness, wondering about who or what created such a beast and what the creation tells about its creator. Well, read it yourself, it isn’t long  :)

Also note the line “Burnt the fire of thine eyes?”


Back to MaSu:

“Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery”

In fact the whole paragraph could be seen as an allusion to the poem, they certainly fit together thematically.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Sirix on July 04, 2006, 01:02:12 am
Greetings, here's a newcomer wishing to add some thoughts to the TTLG commentaries, totally ignoring that two weeks has passed since last reply.

One thing that I’ve noticed as absent is that the lyrics contain a direct quote from William Blakes “The Tyger” (full text: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html)), namely “fearful symmetry”.

I haven’t analysed the poem much myself, but an easy interpretation is that is a thoughtful look at a tiger (take you pick about what you want it to represent). Marvelling at both its beauty and ferociousness, wondering about who or what created such a beast and what the creation tells about its creator. Well, read it yourself, it isn’t long  :)

Also note the line “Burnt the fire of thine eyes?”


Back to MaSu:

“Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery”

In fact the whole paragraph could be seen as an allusion to the poem, they certainly fit together thematically.


first off, welcome.

second off, allow me to give you your first applaud on that excellent find and interpretation on TTLG

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Kernel on July 05, 2006, 02:29:07 am
Greetings, here's a newcomer wishing to add some thoughts to the TTLG commentaries, totally ignoring that two weeks has passed since last reply.

One thing that I’ve noticed as absent is that the lyrics contain a direct quote from William Blakes “The Tyger” (full text: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html)), namely “fearful symmetry”.

I haven’t analysed the poem much myself, but an easy interpretation is that is a thoughtful look at a tiger (take you pick about what you want it to represent). Marvelling at both its beauty and ferociousness, wondering about who or what created such a beast and what the creation tells about its creator. Well, read it yourself, it isn’t long  :)

Also note the line “Burnt the fire of thine eyes?”


Back to MaSu:

“Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery”

In fact the whole paragraph could be seen as an allusion to the poem, they certainly fit together thematically.


first off, welcome.

second off, allow me to give you your first applaud on that excellent find and interpretation on TTLG



Well, I can't applaud you since I'm a newbie myself, but I want to thank you very much for showing me (us) that poem and its possible relationship with TTLG!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: xjen0vax on July 29, 2006, 01:20:05 am
more than 20 days past since last reply. but, fuck it. BUMPAGE!!

Elite
I'm guessing it's essentially about the album, and how the band feels it's superior to DXM.
"Did you doubt us from what came before?
Were you not a believer?
Here and now all your doubts are no more,
cuz' this is Redeemer."

sounds like it to me.

Rise
Well, I've heard about it being about reality TV, but, I don't get that too much. I don't have much idea what this one's about anyway, so, I'll leave that one.

Fury
Well, sounds like a dragon, apparently it's about a storm, who cares, it's fucking cool. It seems like it's about some video game, most likely a really involving one, that has a dragon as a boss fight, or something. Only one that comes to mind is Legend of Druaga, =P

Ronin
Kind of sounds like it's describing a failure in life, or, lonliness, possibly expressing a past/present feeling one of the band members has felt, like they were left alone, nowhere to go(hence the name Ronin, wikipedia it). Or it could be about popsicles, we may never know, XD

Kaori Stomp
This song is about cool. lol, no. But, it sounds like it might be about someone rebelious, but that is the kind of person you'd want to be friends with. Though, it also sounds like it might be about someone who's got a really evil/wild side to them, and would turn their back on a friend for a little fun. maybe, maybe not.

Hate
Sounds like it's about someone who's been hurt, and about how hate is built up, and revenge seeked against the one who caused that person pain. And about how someone would go to any lengths to get that revenge, even if it meant doing some really evil things(i.e. murder).

I Know The Reaper
This one sounds like it's about society's fear of death, and how people hold onto those they love who've died, even if holding onto them is needless. Or about how they hold on to their own life because they're afraid either the afterlife is bad, or there is no afterlife.

Seventeen
This one's obvious. It(much like 'Legion of Stoopid' I may add) is a mockery of american government. About how america will wage war on a country in the name of that countries freedom. Essentially, this song conveys the message "Bombing for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity".

Cavern of Lost Time/Rogue World Asylum
This one sounds like it's about the steady downfall of the world, and society as we know it, and about how eventially the world will lie in ruin, and those with enough will and knowledge will have to rebuild the world. Also about how there are those who know how to stop this downfall, and about how there's obstacles being placed in front of them constantly. Hence "And now they build another wall again.". Also, a "she" is referered to alot in this song, and I believe this "she" is either refering to Society, or to War.

Through the Looking Glass
Sounds like it's about mans quest for knowledge, and about how we'll go to any lengths to find that knowledge.
"And in the light of the sun we go,
through rain and raging snow,
find the things we do not know.

I will go, never laying low,
Just tell me how to breath, and I will make it so.
You must know, that this is not for show,
and if we are not wise, we all demise."

Seems to point to it to me.

Oki Kumas Adventure
I've no clue, except that it's about the adventure of someone named "Oki Kuma"? Perhaps someone of legend, or something of the sort. "It speaks of a legacy, one of me and my family". Meh.

Reanimator
Sounds like death, and sorrow, and trying to remember those you've lost, even though there's no way they'll ever return. Also sounds like it's reasuring about death, that "Death is just the start of another adventure." kind of thing.

Prelude to Empire/Empire
Sounds like it's about someone who's trying an overall takeover of everything *looks at american government/bush administration* =P



If I messed up on any of the lyrics, let me know, I wasn;t using any reference materials, of course seings as MaSu.com is down. Just thought I'd put it out there what I think these songs are about.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: L'homme magique on July 29, 2006, 01:23:54 am
Druaga is a big many limbed wizard, not a dragon.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: xjen0vax on July 31, 2006, 11:01:03 pm
Druaga is a big many limbed wizard, not a dragon.
SHHH!! There was a dragon on the case!! >.<

lol, I actually never took the time to go through LoDruaga, so I wouldn't know.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on July 31, 2006, 11:26:02 pm
Greetings, here's a newcomer wishing to add some thoughts to the TTLG commentaries, totally ignoring that two weeks has passed since last reply.

One thing that I’ve noticed as absent is that the lyrics contain a direct quote from William Blakes “The Tyger” (full text: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html)), namely “fearful symmetry”.

I haven’t analysed the poem much myself, but an easy interpretation is that is a thoughtful look at a tiger (take you pick about what you want it to represent). Marvelling at both its beauty and ferociousness, wondering about who or what created such a beast and what the creation tells about its creator. Well, read it yourself, it isn’t long  :)

Also note the line “Burnt the fire of thine eyes?”


Back to MaSu:

“Once I walked along a field
another nightmare in my mind
and beheld the fearful symmetry
Everything was beautiful
even things that were dead
and I surged with violent imagery”

In fact the whole paragraph could be seen as an allusion to the poem, they certainly fit together thematically.


Excellent, applauded.

I should've known, the poem was also referenced in Calvin and Hobbes.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mega0m3ga on August 07, 2006, 07:29:55 am
Ok i wikipedia'd Ronin. Do you think it has anything to do with any of these? (my money is on one of the comics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_%28disambiguation%29
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lexx on August 07, 2006, 11:46:41 am
Or it could be about Ronin in general?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mega0m3ga on August 08, 2006, 07:38:13 am
Yeah and who's "she"? All the songs have a referance to some girl. "we owe it all to her". "as she opens up and wallows in the light". Also, the cover of DXM has a girl on the cover.
Maybe you guys were talking about this before but Im too lazy to search the forum. So lets talk about it again lol.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: PrescriptiveBarony on August 08, 2006, 07:44:42 am
"we owe it all to her".

We are but children to the earth
No matter what they say
we owe it all to her

solved!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mega0m3ga on August 08, 2006, 07:49:27 am
mother earth? i kinda thought so at first, but dang.

I really think some people in this thread, me included, are overthinking this whole thing. I mean i was forced to write poetry and i just wrote a bunch of words that sounded good together. Maybe... nah. hahaha.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ankle on August 09, 2006, 04:22:01 am
http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass

Oh my god it all makes sense now!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: CrunchyLizard on August 09, 2006, 09:36:50 am
http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass

Oh my god it all makes sense now!

Doesn't this make more sense: http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass ?
(yes, they are different even though the links almost look alike)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on August 10, 2006, 01:10:11 am
"we owe it all to her".

We are but children to the earth
No matter what they say
we owe it all to her

solved!


Riddle already solved. Read up on the entire topic:


the fear of being forgotten pretty much = the fear of death me thinks.....

and the "she" talked about in rogue world asylum is probably the little word "freedom". it also talks about how it's damaged due to fear ,"as we search for what to follow in the >>night<<"

"She breathes death inside
as we keep trying to nurture her with lies
Now scorched her eyes are blind
Though given time she can recover if we try"

why "freedom", and not "the World" ?. the eyes are pretty much the word which give this metaphor more sense, and a theoretical thing like freedom you can nurture far easier with lies than "the world".... ;P
and well, "walls" are used as a symbol of the destruction of freedom, thats quite obvious, aight?


Impressive... ;)

There you have it.

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: NaziMoomin on January 31, 2007, 11:26:26 am
Hey everyone. I was too lazy to read everything you've wrote, so I ask this question.
Can everyone here tell, what do they think is the meaning of "Rogue World Asylum?
Coz I think it's awesome song. Especially the part "And now they're building another wall again.." is very cool.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on January 31, 2007, 12:58:54 pm
Read the post right above yours...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ausp on January 31, 2007, 09:29:26 pm
Yeah, man, come on...not reading 10 pages I can understand, but it's right there.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WereVolvo on January 31, 2007, 09:56:07 pm
The search function is also your friend ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Smeagol on January 31, 2007, 10:20:04 pm
The search function is also your friend ;)

The horrible crippled, barely working, search function, you mean?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ausp on January 31, 2007, 10:43:50 pm
Alright, maybe not a useful friend, but it still likes you.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Fjedsen on February 19, 2007, 09:57:18 pm
Hey everyone. I was too lazy to read everything you've wrote, so I ask this question.
Can everyone here tell, what do they think is the meaning of "Rogue World Asylum?
Coz I think it's awesome song. Especially the part "And now they're building another wall again.." is very cool.

Some brainstorming by myself ^^

Perhaps its about American policy ... again :/
Because ...
... in the song you can find "but it looms like die mauer". And I think they meant the Mauer in Germany. This wall divided and isolated west and east
... in the song you can find "and now they build another wall again". Sense: America isolates itself
... Rogue World = Everything else then America (Rogues = Thieves = Bad Talibans = ...)

Also the Patriot Act fits into this theory.
Thats all ... over and out
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on August 17, 2007, 12:42:24 pm
Ok... Since he has not updated, I might do it. But I dont want to read 12 pages.
So I write what I know. Then you can add. :P

Elite - MaSu themself?
Rise -
Fury - A storm/A dragon
Ronin -
Kaori stomp -
Hate -
I know the reaper - Fear of death
17 - Americas world policy
Rogue world asylum -
Through the looking glass -
Oki kumas adventure - Teddybear madness :P
Reanimator - Zombies, undeads.
Empire -
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on August 17, 2007, 02:40:09 pm
Add? Some are just wrong imo :P

Elite - Resolvement, dedication
Rise - About the rise of a new gerne
Fury - A Dragon
Ronin - lost wanderer, warrior
Kaori stomp - About adoring someone, perhaps idolizing, or unity in mind and in soul
Hate - Well, hate. Might also be interpeted as your other, violent side, as Hyde in Jeckyll and Hyde.
I know the reaper - No fear of death
17 - America's bloodstained politics
Rogue world asylum - About a different, rogue, unbound world
Through the looking glass - Something about opening your eyes to see another world..
Oki kumas adventure - Song about an bear's adventure?
Reanimator - Reviving someone from the dead
Empire - If you don't make a stand, or don't have a voice, you'll be a slave to the Empire
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Sirix on August 17, 2007, 02:49:39 pm
Add? Some are just wrong imo :P

Elite - Resolvement, dedication
Rise - About the rise of a new gerne
Fury - A Dragon
Ronin - lost wanderer, warrior
Kaori stomp - About adoring someone, perhaps idolizing, or unity in mind and in soul
Hate - Well, hate. Might also be interpeted as your other, violent side, as Hyde in Jeckyll and Hyde.
I know the reaper - No fear of death
17 - America's bloodstained politics
Rogue world asylum - About a different, rogue, unbound world
Through the looking glass - Something about opening your eyes to see another world..
Oki kumas adventure - Song about an bear's adventure?
Reanimator - Reviving someone from the dead
Empire - If you don't make a stand, or don't have a voice, you'll be a slave to the Empire


bah!
Reanimator is so not about the dead!
just like Fury is really about a storm, but only seemingly about a dragon.

and Oki Kuma's is definitely a bit deeper than a bear's adventure.
I really think that that's just a fun title the band chose... but necessarily something to define the song.
I think maybe it's about the importance of History, both personal and wide-spread.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WNivek on August 17, 2007, 03:08:29 pm
and Oki Kuma's is definitely a bit deeper than a bear's adventure.
Did you notice  the post I had made regarding my minor findings (http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2795.msg99234.html#msg99234), back on page 4 of this thread?
The song appears to at least reference Firefly, Joss Whedon's SciFi Western TV series (canceled by Fox after only half a season...), including a direct quote in the chorus. ("No power in the 'verse can stop me", spoken by both Kaylee and River in the episode titled 'War Stories')
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on August 17, 2007, 03:20:58 pm
Add? Some are just wrong imo :P

Elite - Resolvement, dedication
Rise - About the rise of a new gerne
Fury - A Dragon
Ronin - lost wanderer, warrior
Kaori stomp - About adoring someone, perhaps idolizing, or unity in mind and in soul
Hate - Well, hate. Might also be interpeted as your other, violent side, as Hyde in Jeckyll and Hyde.
I know the reaper - No fear of death
17 - America's bloodstained politics
Rogue world asylum - About a different, rogue, unbound world
Through the looking glass - Something about opening your eyes to see another world..
Oki kumas adventure - Song about an bear's adventure?
Reanimator - Reviving someone from the dead
Empire - If you don't make a stand, or don't have a voice, you'll be a slave to the Empire


bah!
Reanimator is so not about the dead!
just like Fury is really about a storm, but only seemingly about a dragon.

and Oki Kuma's is definitely a bit deeper than a bear's adventure.
I really think that that's just a fun title the band chose... but necessarily something to define the song.
I think maybe it's about the importance of History, both personal and wide-spread.
I just recapped in a nutshell :P
Reanimator is about revival! Of people who stand out etc etc
But still about revival from.. the dead.
The song is not about the dead i never said that :D

Anyway, i know some explanations are a bit shortsighted but change them if you like, at least its better than iggmans version..  8)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on August 17, 2007, 03:47:05 pm
oki kumas adventure is about some sort of inspiring journey.
not sure about reanimator, but the lyric "history has changed//but people lay the blame//to anyone who doesnt think the same" doesnt lead me to believe its simply about zombies wandering around.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on August 17, 2007, 05:17:07 pm
Hahaha!

Maybe the sentance "while we’re waiting for the dead to rise" is not meant literal, as in, they rise again in spirit, in thoughts, they think alike.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on August 17, 2007, 05:20:09 pm
...or like history repeating itself...!  :o
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mumppis on August 17, 2007, 06:08:23 pm
i know the reaper is a anti religion song
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on August 17, 2007, 06:11:07 pm
The "sweetest of all lies" part gives that away, I guess.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on August 17, 2007, 06:15:39 pm
i fink i kno tha repur is bout my mum not wanting to giv my wot i wnt so she tris lying to m lol
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: mumppis on August 17, 2007, 06:23:44 pm
The "sweetest of all lies" part gives that away, I guess.

more like robert told me so
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on August 17, 2007, 06:26:22 pm
just because you provide him with the bumfun :(
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Crazywater on August 17, 2007, 07:19:59 pm
I think Reanimator is about people too lazy to change the world and make it a better place, thus just "marching like undead".

To change takes more than to remain.
Therefore we lay -back- in the comfort of our chains.

this line is pure genius  8)

Also, have a look at the Japanese part.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on August 17, 2007, 09:31:49 pm
I think Reanimator is about people too lazy to change the world and make it a better place, thus just "marching like undead".

To change takes more than to remain.
Therefore we lay -back- in the comfort of our chains.

this line is pure genius  8)

Also, have a look at the Japanese part.

Woah, smart guy person here! :D

Maybe. But I stick with the zombies. ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on August 17, 2007, 11:11:57 pm
Reanimator, in my opinion, is about people who have long since forgotten passion.

Feel the life inside
a remnant of the tide
that raged within when you were still alive


This is referring to peoples apathy towards political and social events, namely social changes that need to occur, but lack the willpower and dedication to actually go through with. This can be seen in such things like war and pollution. The song is set up taking place long after the "Hero" has grown old and weary of societies problems. Take a look at youth culture trends, the most politically active group around. "Alive" to me, refers to ones will to do something rather than get up and go to work, a will to change something about the world....or maybe it's just the will to go outside and enjoy yourself rather than sitting alone watching T.V..

never mind the cries   - This could refer again to war, famine, pollution, genocide and all those horrible things. Saying how we ignore them because we're not face to face with them each day.

listen to the lies -  This could be about the media, and the media's spin on everything (Take a look at Legion of Stoopid, we know Roberts's outlook towards mainstream political news [read: FOX] is very negative and spiteful [too strong a word?].) This could also be the lies spread from your local idiots...you know the ones, handing out flyers about the end of the world. But, also knowing Roberts feeling towards religious institutions, we could see that this may be about the religious lies, the kind that tell us that God is testing our faith by giving such horrible floods and monsoons. Those that tell us that there's nothing to worry about in the world because God will look after us. Then there's the more extreme versions of religious "lies" which could extend to the point where you see terrorism (Yeah, I know....I hate to use that fucking word too) or...to say....rationalize invading another country...Aaanyhow.

while we’re waiting for the dead to rise - This could be about how we're waiting for a magical solution to our problems rather than actually trying to do something about it. Again though, this could be about the religious scew of it, in which we are waiting for the second coming of Christ and all that crap. It could be about how we're relying on old ways of doing things without really trying to improve what we have. (Talking out my ass here).


....And I've lost interest in spewing crap at you. So that's as far as I'm going.



Elite - The band, and an intro to the album.
Rise - Society and mainstream culture.
Fury - A storm represented by a dragon
Ronin - Overcoming fear?
Kaori stomp - A love song (Awwww how cute)
Hate - ....Um...Hatred...
I know the reaper - Anti-religion song.
17 - The invasion of Iraq, mostly. Mixed with song generic dislike of the U.S. ^_^
Rogue world asylum - I believe it was the Berlin wall. But I honestly don't know.
Through the looking glass - Typical Machinae "Find yourself" song.
Oki kumas adventure - Just sounds like one part of a hero's journey.
Reanimator - Apathy
Empire - ...It has like 2 lines in the whole song... I somehow doubt there's a whole wad of meaning packed into this one.

But the point remains. Reanimator not about fucking zombies.

It's just....not.


Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on August 17, 2007, 11:22:26 pm
You're completely wrong!


Feel the life inside
a remnant of the tide
that raged within when you were still alive


That lines are about zombies having children. They still feel the life inside, while they are dead. And it reminds them of the times, when they were alive.

never mind the cries   - When baby is born, it cries. As a zombie you can't silence it, so just never mind.

listen to the lies - When children are growing up, they tend to lie to their advantage. A zombie parent must listen to it.

while we’re waiting for the dead to rise - there are people who like throwing zombies to the ground. Someone must help them to rise.

It IS about zombies then.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SweZor on August 17, 2007, 11:25:38 pm
That's also a way to look at it...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Waruar on August 18, 2007, 12:22:05 am
Yo! First of all, I'm a new guy here. So, hello to everyone.  :)

I just read through the whole tread and I must say, some impressive stuff people have come up with. But what I find odd is that no-one actually finds any references to anything in the song Hate.
Well, guess I gotta be the first then. Here I go:

Has anyone read the book called The Count of Monte Cristo? It's written by Alexandre Dumas, the same guy who also wrote The Three Musketeers. Anyway, the theme of the book is revenge. And not just any kind of revenge, but the most horrific and painful revenge one could ever come up with. And I'm not talking about physical pain here, but something much worse.
The story goes like this. A sailor called Edmond Dantès, is deceived by three people who each want to upgrade their own position in doing so: one seeks his status, one his woman and the last simply wants to save his own ass from a scandal. As a result, Edmond is announced a bonapartist and sent to prison, the Castle of If.
During the years he's imprisoned, he goes through many states of mind: sadness, despair and insanity. Once he finally realizes who he was deceived by, new emotions that the naive young man had never felt before wake up in him: anger, and most of all hate. After 14 years of imprisonment, he manages to escape. But 14 years is a long time spent in jail, for a man who hasn't done anything wrong. Edmond isn't the same person he once was. He has become a man, who seeks nothing but revenge to those who did him wrong.

A true revenge is not trivial, something you do impulsively. It's something you plan with absolute care. We're talking about a series of unfortunate events, that have been planned carefully by someone years before. Losing your life is quick and painless, but losing your love, your status, your pride, everything you hold dear... that's truly "something primal, something strong". And this Edmond Dantès does. With the treasure he found from the Island of Monte Cristo, he creates himself a fake identity and with it, is able to become friends with his enemies, while slowly destroying them behind their backs.

I'm not gonna tell any more of the plot, in case someone actually wants to read the book. But the references don't end there!
The book has been adapted to countless movies and TV-series, but also to an anime series. The anime takes a somewhat different approach to the novel than the other adaptions, as it sets the story to a science fiction environment. It may sound stupid, but I assure you, it's one of the best novel adaptions I have ever seen, even though it takes a few liberties on it's own.
One huge change made in the anime, is that here Edmond Dantès is being controlled by a true God of Revenge. A being calling himself Gankutsuou (= Ruler of the Cavern). In the novel, Edmond always felt discomfort because of his own sadistic actions, but in the anime he is presented as a split personality: Gankutsuou is the source of his anger and the reason why he simply can't put an end to his actions, even though he, from time to time, seems to want to do so.

And HERE is where similarities between the lyrics and Monte Cristo begin!

It will never be ok
no, they
violated you
I have to make them pay
something primal, something strong
can't escape
and those who did you wrong
I hunt like prey

and it burns inside
the need to kill - I'm driven by
the crimson tide
meet my demon, meet my Hyde


So, basically, we have a split personality here: "Those who did YOU wrong, I hunt like prey". Just think of it as a voice talking inside your head. And the the part "Meet my demon, meet my Hyde", is a certain reference to the evil side of Dantès, or in this case, Gankutsuou.

I was the only one who knew
who held you
the system doesn't hear
nobody will listen to


So, basically this "other self" is the only person who actually knows what really has happened. Other people won't listen, the law won't listen, no-one will. You have only one who listens and understands you, and it's the voice in your head.

and it burns inside (I burn alive)
the need to kill - I'm driven by
the crimson tide (the falling sky)
meet my demon, meet my Hyde


Ha, other references! Both "I burn alive" and "the falling sky" depict the feelings of discomfort and hate towards himself. He's human emotions emerge from time to time, causing him nothing but pain. However, he wants to hold on to these feelings, because they're the only thing that keep him human.

for the sum of the hurt
and for the hauntings in the night
they suffer this fairly
as they lie in the dirt
begging, pleading for their lives
I cover them slowly


And this pretty much settles it. The revenge is slow and painful, just as this quote from the animated series tells:
"Death is the final stage of all things. However, it is but a release from pain. What I desire is despair - your endless despair" - Edmond Dantès / Gankutsuou

... I don't know if I'm even coming close here. ;D But MaSu has made a song based on Serial Experiments Lain, so I don't find my analysis too far-fetched.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Sirix on August 18, 2007, 12:23:28 am
and Oki Kuma's is definitely a bit deeper than a bear's adventure.
Did you notice  the post I had made regarding my minor findings (http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2795.msg99234.html#msg99234), back on page 4 of this thread?
The song appears to at least reference Firefly, Joss Whedon's SciFi Western TV series (canceled by Fox after only half a season...), including a direct quote in the chorus. ("No power in the 'verse can stop me", spoken by both Kaylee and River in the episode titled 'War Stories')

were you the first one to discover that?
I don't remember!
I know it was discovered fairly soon after the album was released, so yes I -did- know about that, but the song isn't ABOUT Firefly.. it just tributes it.

and SpeedD and Yasiekk both get an applaud for fantastic interpretations on Reanimator.

Zombie Babies! (http://sirix-cjm.deviantart.com/art/Copy-Paste-Gun-61577831)

edit: I just read your interpretation Waruar.  I agree that the song is quite possibly about Revenge, but I somehow doubt it's directly referencing Monte Cristo (which I -have- read and seen a modern movie adaptation of, both of which are excellent)

also: why does Gankutsuou sound SO familiar? Is that the name of the anime?
if so, then I have, indeed, heard of it!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Waruar on August 18, 2007, 12:35:02 am
Well, even I don't think it's been taken directly from Monte Cristo. But I do think it has somehow been the source of inspiration for the lyrics. Gankutsuou is the same story, with the main character having a split personality, which definitely resembles the lyrics of the song.

And yes, the full name of the anime is Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you do so, for it is an excellent adaption!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Zombie With Style on August 18, 2007, 02:12:18 am
I know the reaper - Anti-religion song.

I don't quite make the connection with that, I thought it was about... not fearing death, this meaning kind of bashes you in the head in the song
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on August 18, 2007, 02:52:36 am
I know the reaper - Anti-religion song.

I don't quite make the connection with that, I thought it was about... not fearing death, this meaning kind of bashes you in the head in the song

You're both right.

I think it's an atheist's song. When you have no religion, you face death as what it is: death - the end, where you become nothing. Not a passage into the next life or just a necessary interruption in the grand scheme that is your continuing life; just decomposition. And that's what "knowing the reaper" is: facing death rather than a story of what lies on the other side.

I'm with Crazywater and SpeedD about Reanimator. It does seem to be about an apathy to the world. About how were taking a blind eye to all the problems ("Sleep and fade away, Inside these walls we wait"). Then once the world has been destroyed by a lack of action against pollution, war, etc, only then do we "wake up to the silence, after judgement day"

And I like the Monte Cristo reference. Hate is definitely a song about a well-plotted revenge, that's for sure.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on August 18, 2007, 07:16:20 am
I know the reaper - Anti-religion song.

I don't quite make the connection with that, I thought it was about... not fearing death, this meaning kind of bashes you in the head in the song

It's both. But I needed to sum it up in a few words :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Gordon on August 18, 2007, 06:20:58 pm
You're completely wrong!


Feel the life inside
a remnant of the tide
that raged within when you were still alive


That lines are about zombies having children. They still feel the life inside, while they are dead. And it reminds them of the times, when they were alive.

never mind the cries   - When baby is born, it cries. As a zombie you can't silence it, so just never mind.

listen to the lies - When children are growing up, they tend to lie to their advantage. A zombie parent must listen to it.

while we’re waiting for the dead to rise - there are people who like throwing zombies to the ground. Someone must help them to rise.

It IS about zombies then.

WTF??!!  ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on August 18, 2007, 06:29:51 pm
The best analysis of any song to date, I'd say.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Gordon on August 18, 2007, 06:49:19 pm
The best analysis of any song to date, I'd say.

I agree.  :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on August 19, 2007, 12:42:16 am
Vote teh yasiekk 4 teh interpretetotaror!!!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SomethingApt on August 19, 2007, 11:23:00 am
and Oki Kuma's is definitely a bit deeper than a bear's adventure.
Did you notice  the post I had made regarding my minor findings (http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2795.msg99234.html#msg99234), back on page 4 of this thread?
The song appears to at least reference Firefly, Joss Whedon's SciFi Western TV series (canceled by Fox after only half a season...), including a direct quote in the chorus. ("No power in the 'verse can stop me", spoken by both Kaylee and River in the episode titled 'War Stories')

were you the first one to discover that?
I don't remember!
I know it was discovered fairly soon after the album was released, so yes I -did- know about that, but the song isn't ABOUT Firefly.. it just tributes it.

I'm 99% certain I was the first person to point out the firefly reference on these forums. I noticed the line the very first time I listened to the song.
/me is a Firefly fanboy :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on August 19, 2007, 11:31:12 am
http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2786.0.html
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SomethingApt on August 19, 2007, 11:34:45 am
http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2786.0.html

nobody seemed to really care at the time :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Laser Turret on August 19, 2007, 12:10:48 pm
http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/index.php/topic,2786.0.html

nobody seemed to really care at the time :P

You should've rephrased it as:

"OMGEEZUS! I r findin FIrefly quote in MASU song! Awesume!"
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on August 19, 2007, 01:39:15 pm
I'm 99% certain I was the first person to point out the firefly reference on these forums. I noticed the line the very first time I listened to the song.
/me is a Firefly fanboy :P

CONGRATULATIONS
(http://www.freewebz.com/brotrr/bigrigs-winner.jpg)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ingjald on August 19, 2007, 02:01:27 pm
Originally made this post in the wrong thread. Oh well, here goes:


not sure if it holds true to the epicness of the song itself, it is a Photo-manip.

http://chrono-logix.deviantart.com/art/Reanimator-62412705

Good, but not for the song.
I have always seen Reanimator, as some group of 3-4 people sitting behing a bar bench with all the zombies EVERYWHERE :P
Cuz reanimator is about zombies?

You must have never heard the song before :P

You kiddin? O_o
But yeah, reanimator is about zombies:

 that raged within when you were still alive
never mind the cries
listen to the lies
while we’re waiting for the dead to rise

while we wait for them to rise

-----

Now if that is not about zombies, then what the hell is it about? :P



While I like the thought of leaving the interpretation of a particular song to each and oneself, I will here add my two cents.

Reanimator is about ignorance. Reanimator is about passivity, and in the end, Reanimator is about awakening and rebellion. The "dead" in the song symbolizes the vast crowd of people who live in ignorance, who belive everything they are told, who do and think like everyone around them, simply because it easier that way. ("to change takes more than to remain. Therefore we lay -back- in the comfort of our chains"). "Comfort" here being a relative term or,  if you will, a double-edged sword, much like the expression "ignorance is bliss". Life may be easier if you just conform to the masses, but are you really happy that way? And is it what you really want?  The dead are the sheep that politicians want, easily led to where they are wanted, simply because they lack the willpower or incentive to do otherwhise.

The undead that the alternative title mentions are, in fact, not quite the zombies some seem to think. As I see it, the undead are the opposite of the dead, having "awakened", "risen" if you will . The "undead" differs from the "dead" in they form their own opinions, they actively seek knowledge , use their brain to judge what is truth and what is lies out of everything they are told, and the most vital difference is that they do not conform for the sake of conforming. Not afraid to be different. Not afraid to take a stand for what they believe, and not afraid to belive different things. In short, being the ones "who stand out from the rows of wayward and misguided silent souls"

As for the next part of that line "History is shamed by people laying blame to everyone who doesn’t feel the same", I think its obvious who is being blamed for not feeling the same, aswell as who is laying the blame.

and finally, I dont know if it this song in particular, or the band that are supposed to be the "Reanimator", but in either case, this song is supposed to be a wake-up call, for if the masses keep conforming and being passive, they will get to "wake up to the silence after Judgement Day"




I think most of that made sense.....good night, now.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ghostek on September 15, 2007, 04:20:31 pm
Greetings!

and in the end, Reanimator is about awakening and rebellion.
Yeah, but to my mind, rather awakening while it's already too late:
wake up to the silence, after judgment day

Quote
The undead that the alternative title mentions are, in fact, not quite the zombies some seem to think. As I see it, the undead are the opposite of the dead, having "awakened", "risen" if you will . The "undead" differs from the "dead" in they form their own opinions, they actively seek knowledge , use their brain to judge what is truth and what is lies out of everything they are told, and the most vital difference is that they do not conform for the sake of conforming. Not afraid to be different. Not afraid to take a stand for what they believe, and not afraid to belive different things. In short, being the ones "who stand out from the rows of wayward and misguided silent souls"
Maybe, but I personally think that the alternative title IS about zombies - but not literal undead monsters, just people acting like them.

But anyway, is there anything left to dispute over? yasiekk's explanation just kicks ass ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: robert on September 21, 2007, 11:26:44 pm
Originally made this post in the wrong thread. Oh well, here goes:


not sure if it holds true to the epicness of the song itself, it is a Photo-manip.

http://chrono-logix.deviantart.com/art/Reanimator-62412705

Good, but not for the song.
I have always seen Reanimator, as some group of 3-4 people sitting behing a bar bench with all the zombies EVERYWHERE :P
Cuz reanimator is about zombies?

You must have never heard the song before :P

You kiddin? O_o
But yeah, reanimator is about zombies:

 that raged within when you were still alive
never mind the cries
listen to the lies
while we’re waiting for the dead to rise

while we wait for them to rise

-----

Now if that is not about zombies, then what the hell is it about? :P



While I like the thought of leaving the interpretation of a particular song to each and oneself, I will here add my two cents.

Reanimator is about ignorance. Reanimator is about passivity, and in the end, Reanimator is about awakening and rebellion. The "dead" in the song symbolizes the vast crowd of people who live in ignorance, who belive everything they are told, who do and think like everyone around them, simply because it easier that way. ("to change takes more than to remain. Therefore we lay -back- in the comfort of our chains"). "Comfort" here being a relative term or,  if you will, a double-edged sword, much like the expression "ignorance is bliss". Life may be easier if you just conform to the masses, but are you really happy that way? And is it what you really want?  The dead are the sheep that politicians want, easily led to where they are wanted, simply because they lack the willpower or incentive to do otherwhise.

The undead that the alternative title mentions are, in fact, not quite the zombies some seem to think. As I see it, the undead are the opposite of the dead, having "awakened", "risen" if you will . The "undead" differs from the "dead" in they form their own opinions, they actively seek knowledge , use their brain to judge what is truth and what is lies out of everything they are told, and the most vital difference is that they do not conform for the sake of conforming. Not afraid to be different. Not afraid to take a stand for what they believe, and not afraid to belive different things. In short, being the ones "who stand out from the rows of wayward and misguided silent souls"

As for the next part of that line "History is shamed by people laying blame to everyone who doesn’t feel the same", I think its obvious who is being blamed for not feeling the same, aswell as who is laying the blame.

and finally, I dont know if it this song in particular, or the band that are supposed to be the "Reanimator", but in either case, this song is supposed to be a wake-up call, for if the masses keep conforming and being passive, they will get to "wake up to the silence after Judgement Day"




I think most of that made sense.....good night, now.

That's a really good analysis.

But in my mind, the undead and the dead are basically the same. Someone undead is still effectively dead, even though they seem to be alive as they can move, etc. So the ones who are neither dead nor undead, are the only ones who are truly alive.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pomser on September 22, 2007, 06:53:30 pm
I got a question about the song names, mabye not in just the redeemer album but still.

Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bates on September 22, 2007, 07:49:24 pm
I got a question about the song names, mabye not in just the redeemer album but still.

Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

Caverns of Lost Time, Dreadnaught and Flagcarrier I'd rather think not. But Loot Burn Rape Kill Repeat was done as a soundtrack for cover CD of a German game magazine, even a World of Warcraft centered issue if I recall correctly.

Wasn't Dreadnaught even about American foreign policy?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on September 22, 2007, 10:31:52 pm
I got a question about the song names, mabye not in just the redeemer album but still.

Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

At least Dreadnaught and Flagcarrier were produced some years b.W (before WoW). I think you are just playing a bit too much, so you see WoW in everything.

Wasn't Dreadnaught even about American foreign policy?

Everybody know Dreadnaught is about armoured giant robots of mass destruction with near-dead space marines inside.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pomser on September 23, 2007, 03:21:18 am
Yeah I've played to much wow <.< 200 days played..... gotta stop that shiet =P lost my gf, my grades, many friends of that shit rofl
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on September 23, 2007, 03:22:36 am


Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

i hate to break it to you, buddy, but World of Warcraft didn't actually create capture the flag.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on September 23, 2007, 03:39:46 am
what did, thats a good question.... TO WIKIPEDIA!
1 minute later:

aha, tis a childrens game!
the first video game to play it was a turn based strategy game called "Capture the Flag", made in 1992 for MSDOS. The first FPS game to do it was Rise of the Triad.

CTF was popularized when it was first introduced as a modification to Quake by the company Threewave. CTF is also a popular mode in the Team Fortress and Team Fortress Classic mods for Quake and Half-Life respectively.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on September 23, 2007, 02:10:44 pm


Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

i hate to break it to you, buddy, but World of Warcraft didn't actually create capture the flag.

Neither does Flagcarrier have to be about CTF. Since ancient times, there have been standard bearers and flagcarriers in virtually every armed force (up until recently, anyway). If anything, the song feels related to that kind of flagcarrier, rather than any CTF game.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pomser on September 23, 2007, 03:20:31 pm


Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

i hate to break it to you, buddy, but World of Warcraft didn't actually create capture the flag.

Well just because WoW didnt Create it doenst mean MaSu couldnt get the idea from WoW :P.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bocom on September 23, 2007, 03:50:09 pm


Is Machinae inspired alot from World of Warcraft? I mean: Caverns of the lost time, Dreadnaught, Loot burn kill repeat, Flagcarrier (WSG FTW?) etc.

i hate to break it to you, buddy, but World of Warcraft didn't actually create capture the flag.

Well just because WoW didnt Create it doenst mean MaSu couldnt get the idea from WoW :P.

But the song WAS created BEFORE World of Warcraft, so they DIDN'T get their idea from it. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pomser on September 23, 2007, 06:22:12 pm
Of course, but fuck blizzarD! rofl my question was if they've gotten it from WoW and mabye Blizzards idea was from something else, like a cover of a cover! but not a music cover! a game cover that turned into music! ... sort of!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Bocom on September 23, 2007, 07:40:20 pm
well, it's not that Blizzard came up with all the ideas for World of Warcraft, such as crafting and forging. Several of the systems found in the game have been made earlier, in other games, and the same can be said for newer MMOs that take inspiration from World of Warcraft. You can't exactly say that CTF, or Warsong Gulch, was created in World of Warcraft, because it exists in many other games, so yeah. ;)

Besides, I've always seen the song Flagcarrier as an Unreal Tournament inspired song, but not limited to that, I mean it probably could've been flagcarriers from ancient times. But I am a nerd, so go figure. :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on September 26, 2007, 09:37:03 am
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: megashroom° on September 26, 2007, 10:10:13 am
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on September 26, 2007, 10:13:42 am
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.

Maybe D&D... But one of them... :P
But the green came from WH, I am pretty sure of that.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: megashroom° on September 26, 2007, 10:18:18 am
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.

Maybe D&D... But one of them... :P
But the green came from WH, I am pretty sure of that.

I don't have any facts, so I won't argue  :).
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on September 26, 2007, 10:19:56 am
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.

Maybe D&D... But one of them... :P
But the green came from WH, I am pretty sure of that.

I don't have any facts, so I won't argue  :).

I don't have proof :P
Just heard it from my brother, and he usually is correct about everything he say :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WereVolvo on September 26, 2007, 01:26:54 pm
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.

Maybe D&D... But one of them... :P
But the green came from WH, I am pretty sure of that.

I don't have any facts, so I won't argue  :).

I don't have proof :P
Just heard it from my brother, and he usually is correct about everything he say :P

Some day that illusion is gonna shatter for you, just like it did for me.

Oh, and I've probably said this before, but GET BACK ON TOPIC BEFORE I TASER YOUR NADS!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: iggMaN^ on September 26, 2007, 01:46:23 pm
I think that the theory about the ancient flagcarriers are more correct...
There were flagcarriers and drummers in the army, to raise the moral and fighting spirit...
So I would think that would be correct, and not from WoW.
And yes, WoW have stealed a lot, for example, green orcs from Warhammer...

I think that green orchs are a lot older then Warhammer.

Maybe D&D... But one of them... :P
But the green came from WH, I am pretty sure of that.

I don't have any facts, so I won't argue  :).

I don't have proof :P
Just heard it from my brother, and he usually is correct about everything he say :P

Some day that illusion is gonna shatter for you, just like it did for me.

Oh, and I've probably said this before, but GET BACK ON TOPIC BEFORE I TASER YOUR NADS!

Wait, what will shatter? That orcs come from D&D or WH? ;)

Ok, on topic then. Uhm, flagcarrier is much likely about ancient flagcarriers...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on September 26, 2007, 02:59:34 pm
OMG, this forum was too smart, until HE came back...

THE REALLY REAL FLAGCARRIER INTEPRETERATORIATION

Quote
"Flash of light, soft yet bright"

Flash of light? The flashlight! It feels soft, so it's certainly one of those with rubber handles attached. And it's bright, so it's the special forces/army one!

Quote
"I walk beneath the shadows
of the evernight"

Flashing some light on a night mission in some middle-east country, that's for sure.

Quote
"Never could have known
there was a place like this"

Guess it's one of those Tadjikiwhatever countries. Hard to find on the map, hard to pronounce

Quote
"where the world burns
and still I can exist"

It's soooo hot out there. Even in the night. But still, people manage to live there.

Quote
"I can't hear the storm anymore
and I don't know what it's for"

Tadjikistan has got some frequent sandstorms. You know, rains/normal storms are to water plants and stuff. But what are sandstorms for? To sand plants? Nope. No one knows.

Quote
"I can't feel my legs
but still I keep going
I can't feel my hands"

Someone got hit and his limbs got paralyzed. War never changes... Though, he's still going, so he's being carried on a MED EVAC vehicle.

Quote
"but still I rest knowing
that I won't go alone"

So he's not the only one being wounded.

Quote
"In the far twilight awaits
opens up to embrace"

It's night, so the twilight is far. That's pretty obvious.

Quote
"This barren soil
scorched and stained"

Ah, the soil of Tadjikistan. Burned by the sun.

Quote
"by the blood of soldiers
left fallen in the rain"

There is a legend, that once upon the time in Tadjikistan, there was a rainstorm. And it killed everyone. Every soldier stationed there.

Quote
"All the light in the world today
Won't light up the night
into which I walk away"

It's very dark and he passes out slowly, thus the walking away into the light part.

SO:

Flagcarrier is about wounded soldiers in Tadjikistan, who were sent on a night patrol during the sandstorm. That was easy.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on September 26, 2007, 03:09:44 pm
I am amazed, and confused.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pomser on September 26, 2007, 04:36:22 pm
I'm dizzy, but in a positive way! I dont wanna ask how you could figure out all those stuff (or if you did know). But hey it's nice reading :).
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ingjald on September 30, 2007, 06:12:17 pm
further comments deemed unnecessary...
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: a sad cow on October 21, 2007, 08:19:43 pm
big post

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=071020

in the arena of logic, i fight unarmed

edit: sorry, wasn't thinking
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on October 21, 2007, 09:33:34 pm
A question:

Why did you quote all of my huge post?
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on October 22, 2007, 04:57:59 pm
he fix'd.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on October 22, 2007, 05:34:46 pm
then he made a HEUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE sig. do we have rules about sig sizes? :-/
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on October 22, 2007, 06:55:11 pm
then he made a HEUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE sig. do we have rules about sig sizes? :-/

We do, and that one is too big.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on October 22, 2007, 06:59:19 pm
i shrunk mine in case it wrapped on smaller screens... also, it sucked.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: TheMonkeyFist on November 24, 2007, 08:37:42 am
I just have a question.  The song seventeen, the message is very clear, but why is it called Seventeen?

The title is the only thing that perplexes me about this song.  So I've come up with a few ideas, tell me what you think. 

First of all Seventeen as far as I'm concerned probably has something to do with age.  17 is just one year younger than 18 which is considered a legal adult in most countries I think.  I'm not really sure.  But a lot of times when someone is 17, they think they're already an adult and entitled to certain things?  So maybe America thinks it's more mature than it really is and thinks it has the right to call the shots when it really hasn't matured as much as it thinks? 

Teenagers often think they know everything when due to their limited experiences they are actually more naieve then they really feel they are.  So America is naieve and not yet matured as a nation, but still feels it has the right to impose it's views on others and feels it is right and just in its actions which are very immature and interfering on others.  Idk, just some thoughts. 
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: SpeedD on November 24, 2007, 08:45:16 am
According to Robert, it actually has more to do with the order in which they wrote songs than anything else. So I wouldn't read too far into it :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Ratti on November 24, 2007, 12:02:58 pm
Seventeen was in fact the 17th song in a list of songs that they considered putting onto Redeemer and I guess they kept referring to it as 17 and the name stuck... I won a free t-shirt for figuring that one out!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lexx on November 24, 2007, 05:56:42 pm
I always thought it was about being seventeen years old.. having to grow up and becoming part of Society, and all it's ugliness.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pelle on December 02, 2007, 05:38:49 pm
I don't know if anyone touched on this earlier, but to me Hate sounds like it deals with some type of abuse. Sounds like a personal struggle of someone whos' loved one have been abused. If you listen to the text and think about it, it makes sense ("violated you"). "The system doesn't hear" surely fits this perfecly, abuse is seldom something you talk about and not many are willing to really listen. Something "primal inside" you that wants to hurt those who hurt your love, mixed with pain, frustration and helplessness (burns inside). "Hauntings in the night" points at a trauma, bad dreams, unable to sleep etc.

An extremely powerful song and my favorite, probably because I take this approach to it.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: harvey danger on December 03, 2007, 12:44:23 am
I don't know if anyone touched on this earlier, but to me Hate sounds like it deals with some type of abuse. Sounds like a personal struggle of someone whos' loved one have been abused. If you listen to the text and think about it, it makes sense ("violated you"). "The system doesn't hear" surely fits this perfecly, abuse is seldom something you talk about and not many are willing to really listen. Something "primal inside" you that wants to hurt those who hurt your love, mixed with pain, frustration and helplessness (burns inside). "Hauntings in the night" points at a trauma, bad dreams, unable to sleep etc.

An extremely powerful song and my favorite, probably because I take this approach to it.

I always thought it was about rape.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on December 03, 2007, 06:37:47 am
and rape isn't abusove? O_o

edit: misplaced apostophe. not bad for being completely drunk as fuk, eh?

edit2: lol spelling. xD
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: harvey danger on December 03, 2007, 09:32:19 am
and rape isn't abusove? O_o

edit: misplaced apostophe. not bad for being completely drunk as fuk, eh?

edit2: lol spelling. xD

It is, but when people refer to abuse in the media, tit means more of the on-home kinda stuff. Abusive parents and the like...

I think rape fits a bit better, seeing as how often the victim is told "it's her fault" and how little the authorities often do. Then it would make sense for the woman's boyfriend/husband/lover to be out for revenge, which is where the narrative seems to be coming from.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: pelle on December 03, 2007, 11:22:08 am
Abuse is a general term, the song could probably refer to other things also if you read into it. But probably sexual abuse/rape, yes.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: ПФББЧ on December 03, 2007, 02:35:33 pm
HATE IS A SONG ABOUT BAD THINGS, OK? :)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Waruar on January 04, 2008, 02:25:02 pm
In fact, I just realised that Hate may indeed be about rape... and lots of other horrible things.

Has anyone seen the movie The Crow? If you haven't then I suggest you do. It's one of the most awesome movies I've ever seen. In it, a guy named Eric Draven comes home to his girlfriend Shelly, only to find out that some bastards have broken in and are beating and raping her. Soon Eric is stabbed, shot twice and thrown out of the window. His girlfriend dies later in the hospital.
A year later, Eric comes back to life. He plans to take his revenge on the ones that violated and killed his girlfriend. And being immortal, he's gonna have a hell of a good time in doing so.

It all just fits quite well with the lyrics.
they violated you, I have to make them pay

and it burns inside, the need to kill, I'm driven by


Well, at least the song reminds me of the movie, so it's even more kickass than before. (:

Edit: The movie is so great, I just had to go emo with my avatar and signature. ;D
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Lysix on January 04, 2008, 03:46:01 pm
the crimson tide doesn't really have much to do about rape, in my opinion. unless we're getting into gory details. :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: harvey danger on January 05, 2008, 02:48:35 am
the crimson tide doesn't really have much to do about rape, in my opinion. unless we're getting into gory details. :P

I think the crimson tide is in reference to the narrator, maybe in his emotions. Getting angry = turning red. Or maybe it's just lots of blood from taking his revenge.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on January 05, 2008, 02:51:40 am
I think the crimson tide is in reference to the narrator, maybe in his emotions. Getting angry = turning red.

Green. It's supposed to be green.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WereVolvo on January 05, 2008, 02:58:07 am
I associate "crimson tide" with anger too... you know, "seeing red", becoming enraged and losing all control in a fit of anger while the crimson tide washes over your eyes and makes you see red, ie go absolutely berserk or something

I think the crimson tide is in reference to the narrator, maybe in his emotions. Getting angry = turning red.

Green. It's supposed to be green.

Isn't that the colour for jealousy?

Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: evilcandybag on January 05, 2008, 03:01:25 am
I think the crimson tide is in reference to the narrator, maybe in his emotions. Getting angry = turning red.

Green. It's supposed to be green.

Isn't that the colour for jealousy?

That's the color of the HULK!
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WereVolvo on January 05, 2008, 03:04:12 am
I think the crimson tide is in reference to the narrator, maybe in his emotions. Getting angry = turning red.

Green. It's supposed to be green.

Isn't that the colour for jealousy?

That's the color of the HULK!

Right. But does the HULK! have anything to do with the songs on Redeemer, apart from having anger management issues? Wander back on topic, please... stricter rules on posting in Band Discussion and all ;)
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Danton on September 09, 2009, 01:35:03 pm
*Pokes the old topic with a stick*
I figure it's better to post in the existing, long, thread, than start a new one  8)


Reanimator:

The following is purely my opinion. I'm not saying any of it is right. In fact, it's most likely wrong.

I'm pretty sure this song is anti-conformist, and about how people need to save themselves, and/or work to a better future (nobody is going to do it for them).

I think that the title of the trilogy, 'March of the Undead', does not mean 'undead' literally, rather the collection of people in society who do nothing but mindlessly 'march' through their lives, and be controlled by the media, government, etc., without any real show of free will.

The introductory phrase of the song,

Feel the life inside
A remnant of the tide
That raged within when you were still alive

Referrs specifically to the 'undead', of when they were young and ambitious, and wanting to change the world. The next bit: Never mind the cries , ignore the abnormal, the people suffering, etc. Listen to the lies , listen to the govornment, media, etc. feed you lies, covering up the truth, to hide what's really happening, and believe them. I'll get to that last line later...

The world belongs to those
Who stand out from the rows
Of wayward and misguided silent souls.

The only people really 'alive' are the people who aren't conforming, are thinking for themselves, and are trying to do something to help the world.

History is shamed.
By people laying blame.
To everyone who doesn't feel the same.

I think this one is pretty literal, but I'm not really sure on any specific meanings. This one's kinda up for grabs.

The sun fades beyond the water as we bring on the night.  Hope is leaving (The sun fades beyond the water = sun setting), as the 'undead', or maybe even everyone, is bringing despair and destruction upon themselves and eachother (as we bring on the night).

Sleep and fade away (tonight) . the 'alive' people decide, for whatever given reason (no point, can't make a difference, lost hope, what have you), that they will become 'undead'.

Inside these walls we wait (our lifeforce drains) . waiting for their time, for something to happen that will allow them to influence the world for the better, or for someone to save them, they build up emotional walls and wait, dying until they become 'undead', or maybe even 'dead'.

To change takes more than to remain . to make a difference, for things to get better, you have to work toward it yourself. If you sit there and wait, it won't come to you.

Therefore we lay -back- in the comfort of our chains . despite the above, the 'undead', and probably the 'alive' as well, stay dormant in the familiarity of the restraints/hold/suffering the government, media, etc. has on them.

Japanese part:
I fall asleep and fade away.
Too tired to keep going, I want to remain this way.
It's better to do nothing but wait.
It's better to just be like this.

I'm not quite sure about this part, but I think it voices the views of the 'alive', resigning themselves to their fate, as they become 'undead'. It might also be a rationele of the 'undead' for why they are that way. (This might be an allusion to the "intellectuals" giving up. For one thing, it's in Japanese, a language that most people in the world never learn to understand, so it's all 'intelligent gibberish' to them. It might be a bit from the view of the 'undead', if it is. This is just a thought I had, though, specifically to try to explain why Japanese was used.)  I think it's mostly the first one, myself.

The final repetitions, while similar, are not the same as the original chorus, I think. After all, the last two lines are different, and the absence of "tonight" and "our lifeforce drains". This makes me think that, while similar, the phrase isn't talking about the same thing, and/or in the same way. (Also note the timing differences, and the transition from the original.)

Sleep and fade away . 'alive' people become dormant, or 'asleep', until they are 'undead' or 'dead'.

Inside these walls we wait . the 'alive' people cut themselves off from society and/or what is happening, be it physically, mentally, or emtionally, leading to above dormancy.

Wake up to the silence
After judgement day.

When the 'alive' awaken, if they ever do, it's already too late, and there's nothing they can do to stop it. Society, or the world, has already destroyed itself, and nothing can be done now.

Ah, but now you're wondering what happened to that line up there, near the beginning. I didn't feel that there was enough explanation at that time for this line to make sense.
While we're waiting for the dead to rise . the 'undead', or even some of the 'alive', are waiting for the 'dead' (former 'alive') to come back and save them. But it's too late, and they are already dead and gone, no pun intended.


Conclusion/summary:

In the current state of things, the 'undead' can no longer change on their own. They await the 'alive', already gone, to rise up, and pull them out of their problems. The title "Reanimator" probably refers to what the world needs, someone to bring the 'dead' back, and maybe raise the 'undead' to a better and prosperous world. It may also be the false hope of the 'undead', and maybe 'alive' as well, for someone to come along and save them (Jesus, perhaps?  :) ), when they really need to save themselves. This would ultimately lead to their destruction, as described by the song.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but the song has always sounded sorrowful and/or regretful to me.



A thank-you and a cookie to anyone who actually read through all that :)
Again, this is all just my opinion. I listed multiple possibillities where I'm not sure, as interpretations can almost never be completely accurate ;)
If any parts seem a bit sudden, or erratic, my bad. I went back through and revised, and clarified some parts that I felt might be unclear.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Cleric on September 10, 2009, 11:11:16 am
See, Redeemer is about the way society is today, atleast to me. I mean, look at Rise, that's a definate stab at society, check this verse out.

"And in the urban hell where I live
jaded like strays in the street
white trash scattering their "cribs"
no more than assholes with feet"

That's poking fun, or blatantly pointing out, (I haven't decided yet) Just how mindless people are these days, no one seems to be able to live normally, they have to be something they aren't, like gangsters with their "cribs".

I agree with the posters from before, about Hate being about rape, it seems to be that. That or being molested.

Fury seems to be to be about something like a feared ruler. The dragon was used in the old days as a symbol of strength, so I wouldn't put it past MASU to use it figuratively. I mean look at this.

"Now the immortal beast
descends on me
prepares to feast
my enemy
is taunting me to fight
Simple but supreme..."

Power is immortal, because no matter what, someone will always vie for supremacy, and my enemy could mean something like a rival nation, but you could also take the song at face value, it really could just be about a dragon wreaking havoc.

I Know the Reaper has alot of meaning to me, because a close friend of mine died not too long ago, and a few of the lines really hit home.

"What you fail to realize
is there's no need to fear
you live on in the hearts and minds
of those who hold you dear, who are right here"

It's about remembering the people who have died that were close to you, and that the afterlife is unknown, because no one has ever come back to tell of it. (If you don't believe christian teachings, like me.)

Rogue World Asylum seems to me like a prediction of what the future could hold, just looking at the lines that follow:

"Come with me and you will see
our future in debris
first the sun and now the stars are fading"

But the next few lines imply it's a video game, and that what we all know and love MASU for, Video Game references.

"In a rogue world we are free
we have found the colored keys
but I know that we are still here waiting"

There is alot of slicing and dicing that can be done to this album, mostly because of it's sheer diversity and epicness, but I'm too lazy to do it all right now. I hope you enjoyed reading, and thanks :P
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: LymphoCite_T on September 19, 2009, 03:34:54 pm
(i dunno if should make new topic, but some mods told me if i create next topic similiar to other, they'll sue me - so)

Don't you guys think Kaori Stomp was about Baldur's Gate somehow?
Gazz's "lawwl" before solo sounds exactly like Hobgoblin's "lawwl" in BG1  ;D ;D

If u don't believe they're almost identical, just check yourself.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on September 27, 2009, 12:55:08 am
And Rob's "ah" sounds exactly like a t-rex! Rob is a dinosaur!
Try relating even more unrelated things.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: LymphoCite_T on September 27, 2009, 09:53:42 am
Why are you so offensive? My match was ok.
But i tho it wasn't enough for new topic.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: harvey danger on October 07, 2009, 11:34:32 pm
Why are you so offensive? My match was ok.
But i tho it wasn't enough for new topic.

Thank god for that.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Cerapter on October 12, 2009, 10:49:20 pm
You guys are mean.

So is Reanimator.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: cloudstrifex on October 19, 2009, 07:03:03 am
i herd redeemer is liek a pretty gud album
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: WereVolvo on October 19, 2009, 03:43:30 pm
i herd redeemer is liek a pretty gud album

j00 herd ryte, bro

but i herd this topic shuld be a bit moar srs, k? kthx.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on October 26, 2009, 10:59:38 pm
i can't believe the lyrics are that double minded you need a god damn discussion as to know what the fuck the songs are about
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Sleepy on May 18, 2010, 01:40:18 pm
*pokes head back in*

i've had a supposition of sorts for some time now. this post is more or less a simple question for the author(s). yes/no would be preferable. though debate about what the fuck it is i'm talking about is also encouraged. did at some point you become familiar with a particular facet of understanding that . . . hmm, i'm not really sure how to put this. . . that can't really be taught, but rather has to be discovered by the individual attempting to understand it? and is inspiration of this something you are trying to promote through lyrics by association of music?

i guess, in short: μετά? if you follow.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on May 18, 2010, 05:22:31 pm
I honestly think that the meaning of MaSu lyrics is understandable in more than 90% by everyone with some basic education. And I mean "some things can mean something else, so think sometimes" basic.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: machinaeFREAK on May 19, 2010, 03:40:05 pm
I honestly think that the meaning of MaSu lyrics is understandable in more than 90% by everyone with some basic education. And I mean "some things can mean something else, so think sometimes" basic.

If you compare it with the crap that's on the radio's these days, then yes.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: yas‮ on May 19, 2010, 06:31:32 pm
Well, radio crap is understandable even by XVIII century peasants, so MaSu definitely stands out here.
Title: Re: What are the songs on Redeemer about?
Post by: Jack Lupino on May 19, 2010, 09:25:57 pm
I honestly think that the meaning of MaSu lyrics is understandable in more than 90% by everyone with some basic education. And I mean "some things can mean something else, so think sometimes" basic.
That's only because MaSu's lyrics can be interpreted in over 9000 ways.
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