The Official Machinae Supremacy Forum

Music => Musicians' Section => Topic started by: robert on September 28, 2006, 11:47:13 pm

Title: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 28, 2006, 11:47:13 pm
Ait, so you guys want teh tips on how to record your shizz... We recorded Redeemer on a budget of practically nothing, and we did a looot of it in our own homes. I'll try to explain how we do things, and hopefully it'll help you guys...

Now, this thing won't be so much about how to press the REC button as about what to keep in mind when working.

...

Let's talk guitars. You love guitars - we know you do. They sound cool, look cool, and make whoever plays them look like he could drill any girl so deep their sweet hot love would register on the richter scale. But recording guitars is somewhat cumbersome if you want to do it like the pros. You get so many possible bottlenecks... Everything matters, your guitar, the pickups on it, passive, active, the amp, the microphone, the A/D-converter on your soundcard, etc...

So our solution? Skip most of it. We use a Line6 GuitarPort for our guitars. This way we're down to two worries... The Guitar, and The Soundcard.

What guitar you use depends on what you want to do. Some pickups are famous for providing good rhythm thrashing, like EMG81 active pickups (which I have on my fender), or maybe if you want really good-sounding leads you'll do well with something else... Sadly I don't know the makes or models of these, but I know that Jonne's Jackson KE2 has a sweet lead-sound, and most more expensive Ibanez will provide this for you as well...

How new and fresh your strings are when recording matters, of course, but you don't necessarily want them to be brand-new. Sometimes less new strings sound better because they aren't as "sharp", but for lead guitar and such, we'd recommend you use very new strings... Many pros would suggest you change strings so often you use new strings for every song you record.

The Line6 GuitarPort has mostly boring presets, so at first glance you might believe it isn't all we make it out to be. But if you're willing to experiment and adjust your presets to fit YOUR guitar (yes, every guitar is different, the presets on the GP are likely to not work well with your particular guitar)... We've got a few presets that work for our guitars, like our "Seventeen" distortion preset, which is best suited for our Jackson guitars. We've got a few variations of that one, some for lead and such, and then we have other presets for other guitar. We have separate presets for each guitar, even though some variations are discrete from guitar to guitar. And of course separate presets for separate purposes.

Record mono guitar tracks. There's no point recording them in stereo.

...

What about bass? Well, you'll want to line the bass directly into your soundcard (you might need a mic-preamp to get the right volume, but either way, apply no effects in advance)... Record it mono, and well inside the computer you add perhaps Tube effects, Amp Emulation and maybe distortion. We've used Antares Tube, iZoTope Trash and compression on the bass guitars on Redeemer.

Use a bass guitar with active pickups... That means they require batteries. If you're not using new strings, try boiling them in hot water before recording a song... They'll sound almost like new ones. :)

...

Vocals are tricky. So far, with both bass and guitar, we don't need any special acoustic conditions. But with vocals, you'll want a couple of things to work well around you before you can record...

When we recorded Redeemer, we set up a closet completely covered with dampening plates (not sure that's the english term for those, but padding that eliminates any form of room ambience). The closet felt completely "dull"... When you were in there your voice sounded like you only heard from inside your head, because you didn't get any echo from the walls... We paid something like 200euro for this, so it wasn't that expensive.

The microphone you use for recording is important, of course, but we've used only cheap ones and we've gotten pretty far on that. Shure SM57 is a sure bet to get good quality, though very default "sound" (not that I ever mind... Everything before DXM was done on a SM57). We've also used some TSM mics since then, and we recently bought a mic for like 80euro that we plan to start using now.

Here's our vocal recording "pipeline" ... The microphone goes into a microphone pre-amp (a gadget that provides mic with power - which one you use is important, they come in different qualities and can affect your sound a great deal (I'm told)), which goes into a compressor, and then onward into the soundcard.

The compressor works to level out the sound. Not too much, but as much as you can safely compress the vocals without taking away your options later. This will make the vocals sound better when you record, and also make it easier to sing when you don't have to listen to your own variations in volume when you sing.

You need headphones to monitor the music and your own vocals when recording them, obviously. How you solve this depends on your soundcard I guess, but some soundcards have special "monitor" outputs for headphones. You'll work the listening out, I'm sure. After all, everyone uses headphones at one time or another, right?

...

It'd be ridiculous for me to go into synth and keyboard recording, really. Line the synth, record the sound. Period. However I could tell you that if you ever get the chance to record real 8bit SID, you'll notice a waveform unlike anything you've ever seen in any other recorded instrument or vocal. :)

...

Drums is hard to do yourself. Sadly, I'll have to tell you "Don't try." If you want to do stuff yourself for the most part, THIS is the one thing you want to pay someone else to do. The problem isn't really the difficulty, cause you could figure it out obviously, but the fact that you really do NEED a lot of things to make this work. First of all a rather large studio that can fit a drumkit (yes, you need larger than a closet), and preferably with not too low a ceiling because then the cymbals might sound crappy. And you need a whole set of microphones and a soundcard that can record at least 8 channels simultaneously. And you probably don't want to have to be in the same room when you do, cause drums sound a lot.

...

What about mixing and mastering then? Well, I'm not going to get into mastering, but I can tell you a few simple things that will put you on your path.

Record 2 or 4 rhythm guitars, and pann them all out 100%Right, 100%Left... If you have 4 guitars and not 2, you'll want to use 2 with one "sound" and 2 with another, and then find a balance that sounds phat.

Use mono files as much as you can, and add effects later. Mono files take less space, and stereo files tend to make the projects to clobbered even if you can't hear why... Stereo in every instrument is redundant, in other words, since you'll pan most instruments somehow anyway, introducing your OWN stereo effect into mono files.

It's ok to use multiband compression on groups of instruments, like one on the drumkit, one on the bass, and an ordinary compressor on the guitar group.

You can add more distortion to the guitar group to make them sound even cooler. Even the bass guitar can do good with some distortion. Sometimes, "the bass sound is half the guitar sound".

...

There, hope it helps... I will try to remember to look in here in the future and answer any questions you might have.

Peace -out-
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: mumppis on September 29, 2006, 12:10:32 am
uuh nice work rob :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Fallout on September 29, 2006, 12:32:38 am
Nice one rob, I know nothing about instruments but that was very nicely written :D

EDIT: sticky? (http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)(http://forum.machinaesupremacy.com/Themes/default/images/icons/show_sticky.gif)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on September 29, 2006, 01:11:37 am
Awesome stuff. *Saves onto computer for future reference*
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: the ru on September 29, 2006, 02:04:06 am
And the most important thing; don't get caught in some delusions about what you should or are supposed to do; "if it sounds good, it is good" 8) (can't remember whoever said that :-\). I personally prefer a few rough edges over a too polished recording; don't try to over-perfect it.

Perhaps this (my) discussion should be held in another thread, as it isn't really related to the Machinae recording process.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: the ru on September 29, 2006, 02:11:34 am
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?

Another question; how much editing/cutting/piecing was actually done? Is everything mostly a "straight" recording, or lots of small fragments put together? How much do you record at the same time; just one instrument and building the song "layer by layer", or do you fit as many members as possible into the same room and play?

What about keyboards and SID; are they played live and recorded, or do you use some kind of MIDI setup in the studio, to get the timing correct?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: the ru on September 29, 2006, 02:14:39 am
And, considering what has happened the last few days; will you start recording in a real studio now (providing you can get the budget for it), or will you continue to DIY?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 29, 2006, 07:28:41 am
Awesome stuff. *Saves onto computer for future reference*
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?

We've used Nuendo for both DXM and Redeemer.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 29, 2006, 07:32:02 am
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?

Another question; how much editing/cutting/piecing was actually done? Is everything mostly a "straight" recording, or lots of small fragments put together? How much do you record at the same time; just one instrument and building the song "layer by layer", or do you fit as many members as possible into the same room and play?

What about keyboards and SID; are they played live and recorded, or do you use some kind of MIDI setup in the studio, to get the timing correct?

We have no reservations really, we might record an entire song through when recording an instrument, or do part by part, or go in and over-record a minute, or 4 seconds, or whatever at any point... We usually record at least 2 or 3 "satisfactory" (read: as good as possible) takes of vocals, for instance, so we can choose bits and pieces from them at a later time when putting it all together, and then use the others as background dubs to make the production sound fatter...

We pretty much work in layers, instrument by instrument. Sometimes 2 at a time, but never more.

SID etc is either played live, or tracked in Buzz Tracker.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 29, 2006, 07:34:32 am
And, considering what has happened the last few days; will you start recording in a real studio now (providing you can get the budget for it), or will you continue to DIY?

We'll do it ourselves until the songs are completely finished and recorded, then I guess we'll see if they want to pay for us re-recording it at Studio Fredman, or not. Either way our last visit to Studio Fredman was a truly learning experience, and we should be a lot better at DIY already.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: FallenTabris on September 29, 2006, 11:25:31 am
Quote
Use a bass guitar with active pickups... That means they require batteries. If you're not using new strings, try boiling them in hot water before recording a song... They'll sound almost like new ones.

@_@

that's... uh... interesting.

this is super interesting.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: the ru on September 29, 2006, 12:20:31 pm
Anyone tried this with nylon strings? ::)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on September 29, 2006, 09:00:33 pm
Awesome stuff. *Saves onto computer for future reference*
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?

We've used Nuendo for both DXM and Redeemer.

That looks alot like Cubase. Is it similar?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: the ru on September 29, 2006, 09:11:41 pm
We pretty much work in layers, instrument by instrument. Sometimes 2 at a time, but never more.

How does the writing/rehearsing/recording process work? Do you write a complete song, then rehearse it until you know it well, then start recording? Or do you record bits of it as you come up with them, then just gather and learn to play it together right before gigs?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Bocom on September 29, 2006, 10:35:18 pm
One request.

Can't you guys make a video for this, and like, showing where you record stuff and showing off teh stuff! (... the instruments, of course. ;))

And then, just for the heck of it, do something completely random and unexpected. :)

It would kick ass. :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 29, 2006, 11:53:34 pm
Awesome stuff. *Saves onto computer for future reference*
One technical question, though. What program was everything edited/cut/pieced together/etc in?

We've used Nuendo for both DXM and Redeemer.

That looks alot like Cubase. Is it similar?

In regard to music-making, it's basically identical.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 29, 2006, 11:54:36 pm
We pretty much work in layers, instrument by instrument. Sometimes 2 at a time, but never more.

How does the writing/rehearsing/recording process work? Do you write a complete song, then rehearse it until you know it well, then start recording? Or do you record bits of it as you come up with them, then just gather and learn to play it together right before gigs?

Most of the time we don't really know a song well when we start recording it. We learn and write it as we go along.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on September 30, 2006, 01:07:57 am
In regard to music-making, it's basically identical.

Phew. xD
And as you mentioned earlier on how hard it was to record drums; Did you use a sample set or actually manage to record them yourselves?

That's me done for technical questions now. Thanks for the info. :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on September 30, 2006, 10:46:04 am
We recorded the drums for Redeemer in a studio owned by a friend, so he got some tax-free money there, and we got some drums. :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Del. on September 30, 2006, 03:55:52 pm
Very nice...

But about bass, I don't think it really is necessary to use active P/U's or new string. Used strings and passive P/U's provied ''warmer'' tone IMO. tho, I don't have much expericence about recording or stuff like that.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on October 01, 2006, 06:23:17 am
Maybe depends on what you like... We enjoy a little metallic grain to the sound, some presence instead of dullness, and also we used an E-string tuned down to B, instead of a real B-string at B, just to get it even more in that direction...

But if you want a flatter, "warmer" sound, that doesn't sting as much, I'm sure you can use anything from old strings to rubber bands. But we want the bass to be heard not only felt.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Del. on October 01, 2006, 05:34:53 pm
Warmer sound doesn't instantly mean that the bass isn't heard. I also love the fresh sound that new strings provide. But if you use low tuning like B, you really need some ''boost'' to make it heard. But when you play in, let's say, standard E-tuning, you dont necessarily need that imo. Depends on what u like. As said.
 
Just giving my opinion here. And I don't use rubber bands.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Fallout on October 01, 2006, 05:52:08 pm
But we want the bass to be heard not only felt.

I noticed that, the bass is definately a lot clearer on RRE - you can hear it much better now, I like it :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Star1 on October 02, 2006, 07:16:55 pm
Hi there! just a quick question, how the hell did you guys achieve the cool bass sound on Hate? Was it all done with a direct-to-pc bass, and softamps and effects?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on October 03, 2006, 11:54:00 am
We actually used another bass guitar there. Kahl built his own bass, and we used that one on Hate, but for some reason we got shitty sound on some other songs.

However, it was an ordinary four-string bass with active pickups, I'm not sure what brand, but likely some EMG-bass-pickup-variety.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: MDX on October 26, 2006, 12:09:18 am
rob, amazing thread.

youre a legend for putting it up, its all the questions i could ever have wondered about with you guys. Great post. very helpful.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on October 26, 2006, 01:59:41 am
What do you use as a guideline for the drummer ?

Bad quality drums ?

Computer drums ?

Do you just record all guitars with a metronome ?

Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Aphex on October 29, 2006, 10:01:00 am
Does Jonne use a pedal ?  ??? and If yeah, than which one?
Or the sound he gets is all by the amp?
I love that sweet lead sound  :P
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Irrationalist on November 01, 2006, 09:10:39 pm
Much apprecitated, nice job. :D
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 09, 2006, 02:13:37 pm
What do you use as a guideline for the drummer ?

Bad quality drums ?

Computer drums ?

Do you just record all guitars with a metronome ?

He hears a click-track in his headphones, and often parts of the song as well to know where he is.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 09, 2006, 02:14:57 pm
Does Jonne use a pedal ?  ??? and If yeah, than which one?
Or the sound he gets is all by the amp?
I love that sweet lead sound  :P

For all recording we use Line6 GuitarPort. The advantages way outweigh the drawbacks in relation to using mics and real amps etc for recording.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Fallout on November 09, 2006, 02:44:24 pm
You realise now they know all this there are gonna be tonnes of mini MaSu clones soon :P
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 09, 2006, 04:53:59 pm
Except he's only telling people how to input/master the music? :P
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Radius on November 12, 2006, 03:50:31 am
This has been a very helpful thread for me, especially mentioning Line6 GuitarPort. I'll be purchasing this right away. I'm sure it'll remedy the horrible sound I have been getting recording straight from a small amp and free microphone.

Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Fallout on November 12, 2006, 07:35:38 am
Except he's only telling people how to input/master the music? :P

Yeah, and the equipment, instruments, everything.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on November 12, 2006, 05:04:57 pm
This has been a very helpful thread for me, especially mentioning Line6 GuitarPort. I'll be purchasing this right away. I'm sure it'll remedy the horrible sound I have been getting recording straight from a small amp and free microphone.



Well this is my sound i get from recording my amp sound.

http://simpleyetsupreme.com/rad/Withsolo.mp3

I wonder how much euro's a line6 guitar port is ?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Aphex on November 16, 2006, 09:57:31 am
I think it's round 200 € ... or smthn
but the bad thing is that you'll need to buy extra thingies for it
like new distorsion packs, new (recording) softwares etc.
which are ~ 99 $

But I think the you get some basic pack of softwares with the port itself.
check out their page here. (http://www.line6.com/guitarport/)  ;)
 
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 25, 2006, 10:14:25 am
When we recorded Redeemer, we had only the basic guitarport, without additional addons.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 25, 2006, 02:41:04 pm
Could someone explain what Guitarport actually is? I'm confused as to what it does.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Ant on November 25, 2006, 03:31:16 pm
Could someone explain what Guitarport actually is? I'm confused as to what it does.

I'm just assuming here but if you get a jack-to-jack cable you directly input the guitar to the recording board, removing the need for microphones and amps
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 25, 2006, 07:13:26 pm
Exactly... It's a guitar-amp&cabinet emulator + some effects and different microphone modellers...

We've up until now only used the basic GuitarPort, but we've configured our own presets instead of using the default ones.
We bought the "METAL" addon pack for the GuitarPort just a few days ago... As soon as we've tested it out seriously I can
always return here with some info on how we think it works...

But from our experience so far I can honestly say the guitarport simply makes recording guitars a pure joy because of its
simplicity. And I'd like to remind you people that we've tried the Behringer V-Amp2 as well, and would NOT recommend anyone
getting that.

Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 25, 2006, 07:29:33 pm
Exactly... It's a guitar-amp&cabinet emulator + some effects and different microphone modellers...


So, does that mean if i ever bought one of these, I could hook a guitar up to it and plug this into a computer? Or is it more complex than that? *Newb*

Ignore that, i looked into it and solved my stupid questions. :P
What i can't seem to find is how the played music can be recorded?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: cloudstrifex on November 25, 2006, 08:08:01 pm
You probably need a program for it. :P
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 26, 2006, 09:08:55 am
Exactly... It's a guitar-amp&cabinet emulator + some effects and different microphone modellers...


So, does that mean if i ever bought one of these, I could hook a guitar up to it and plug this into a computer? Or is it more complex than that? *Newb*

Ignore that, i looked into it and solved my stupid questions. :P
What i can't seem to find is how the played music can be recorded?

Not sure if it's changed by the latest drivers or not (they included a VST plug), but up until this point we've simply hooked the line-out from the GuitarPort into our M-Audio soundcard inputs and recorded. So you recorded it like anything, into your soundcard, so you'll want a soundcard with good A/D-converter(s) (that means you get a good input signal).
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 26, 2006, 09:09:53 am
I think if you buy a TonePort, that one is a combined GuitarPort and soundcard, if you don't already have a good soundcard. I haven't tried TonePort myself but I think it works like I just claimed, heheh... :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Aphex on November 26, 2006, 12:43:28 pm
hm.. I saw a recording program on guitarport's site available for purchase
so I just wanted to ask, do you get ANY recording software with
the basic guitarport pack?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 26, 2006, 03:20:29 pm
I think if you buy a TonePort, that one is a combined GuitarPort and soundcard, if you don't already have a good soundcard. I haven't tried TonePort myself but I think it works like I just claimed, heheh... :)

I have an onboard dell soundcard, so i may end up having to buy something new :) Thanks for teh infoz!
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 26, 2006, 08:33:39 pm
No I don't think you get any recording software with it.

And no, you don't want to use the Dell soundcard to record. :)

So far our favourite soundcard manufacturer has been M-Audio (and our least favourite E-MU), but I believe you'd probably be able to use one of the more expensive Soundblaster cards (like Audigy) with adequate results too. Now, I'm not trying to make it sound like you need to be a gear-freak to do this, that's not the case at all.  You'll do quite fine with an M-Audio Audiophile and a GuitarPort. Very high value for relatively low price.

It's not as fancy as a Pro-Tools control room, but it'll get the job done. Mind you, we are not sponsored by any of these, so there's no other reason behind our endorsement than the fact that we are pleased with these products, and they are what we used to make Redeemer.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 26, 2006, 08:59:42 pm
Whats confusing me is that the line6 video of guitarport shows it simply being plugged into the USB port, as apposed to the soundcard directly. Is this for the guitar itself, or something completely different? Does plugging it into the soundcard produce better results?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 27, 2006, 11:19:21 pm
USB and soundcard. You have a sort of USB-adapter in which you plug in the cable from your guitar, and then from the USB-adapter there are two cables, one to the USB port (obviously), and the other to the soundcard.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 27, 2006, 11:31:50 pm
Ahh, it's making sense now :). Thankz0r!
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: LeadFrazer on February 20, 2007, 01:29:20 am
See, i have an ancient Dell computer with some 16meg soundcard by some company that doesnt exist anymore, yet when i plug  my guitar into my pedal board into my comp It sounds amazing, Through an Ibanez Rg350Ex which isnt exactly a great guitar, even better, if you have the funds to buy a valve amp, try wiring guitar --> Valve amp --> Computer then cubase/whatever recording prgram for your effects sounds neat :).
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Tax-5 on August 05, 2007, 03:28:54 pm
I dont play Guitar..

But if a Friend of mine wants to record it we plug his Guitar directly into the Mixing Console (02r)
All the Effects (Compressor, Distortion etc..) will be done in the Computer...
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Blue Devil on October 27, 2007, 08:02:22 am
It would be awesome if you guys posted some screenshots of what a finished mix looks like in whatever mixing program you use.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: robert on November 08, 2007, 06:12:30 pm
Hot tip!

Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/ (http://www.reaper.fm/)). A non-bloatware, low-budget but very functional recording sequencer. I've yet to try it out for what it's worth, but one of the studio technicians who mixed our new album loves it. He recommended it to me, so now I'm playing around with it.

Also, guitar tones for Line6 GuitarPort and TonePort can now be found on our website.

R
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: megashroom° on November 08, 2007, 06:36:13 pm
Hot tip!

Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/ (http://www.reaper.fm/)). A non-bloatware, low-budget but very functional recording sequencer. I've yet to try it out for what it's worth, but one of the studio technicians who mixed our new album loves it. He recommended it to me, so now I'm playing around with it.

R

I would also recommend it. It's simple, supreme and free.

Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on November 09, 2007, 12:38:05 pm
Hot tip!

Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/ (http://www.reaper.fm/)). A non-bloatware, low-budget but very functional recording sequencer. I've yet to try it out for what it's worth, but one of the studio technicians who mixed our new album loves it. He recommended it to me, so now I'm playing around with it.

Also, guitar tones for Line6 GuitarPort and TonePort can now be found on our website.

R

thats awesome, because my music tech teacher was showing us that program this week. he said hes considering replacing cubase with it when the next college year starts. definately looks good, has a few holes but its come a long way since.
also, thanks for uploading those guitar presets. :)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on November 09, 2007, 06:56:02 pm
Getting cable, BUT will not record tonight because there will be a girl around.. somewhere. DOH

BUT When she leaves ill grab a beer and a smoke and get things done the hard way.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: megashroom° on January 06, 2008, 05:36:07 am
Made a topic of its own first but Rehevkor thougt I should ask it here instead, so... I'll paste my post here:


I am wondering what way is the best when recording guitars. And what different options I have.

Why I am wondering is because it is getting time to start recording some songs in the band I play in. And I would like to have as great quality in sound as we can possibly get without recording in a studio or spend a sick amount of money.

# Is it the best way to get a Guitarport and use it all the way?

# Do I have other options than the Line 6 Guitarport, or is Line 6 Guitarport the best of its kind?

# Or should we record a tube amp? (I would not prefer to record with a mic as long as the tube amps we have access to are quite noisy.)

# Is there any way to reduce amp noise?

# How do you record with an amp to get the best result?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on January 06, 2008, 08:28:36 pm
I wanted to post last night but i was too wasted, so ill do it now.

If you're going to record with an amp (preheat tube amps 10 min and play for about an hour for best preformance) you should place the mic right in front of the speaker, if you're recording from a kabinet, in the middle aiming slightly upwards, or fiddle around with it untill you get what you want. :]

The guitarports. Not too sure. Im not fond of them, i like the sound as raw as i can get it.
Im buying one soon though because i wanna try it out... heheh.

A way to reduce amp noise :

- Intervene the cable with a noisegate/noise canceller/etc
- Buy a expensive cable. If you're using just any random kind of cheap cables, they generate static and break more easily than others.
- Turn down your fucking gain! I know from personal experience it might soften the balls on the sound, but thats not the case.
Sometimes a little less gain can make it sound more clean (if you're for instance riffing a metalcore thing) and more badass in general. And the noise is suffenciently less.

Tip for recording solos : You know that some guitars let other strings sing along with the one you actually pick, so you could use a cloth or some foam to dampen the strings on your 1st fret. Just put up a barrier that if you're not touching the fret board there can't be any tone. This is expecially useful for sweeping and tapping solos, i reckon. Haven't used it myself - yet. So tell me if its any good.

That's all for now, if you have more questions, lemme know
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: megashroom° on January 06, 2008, 10:06:40 pm
Thanx a lot sir Radicz0r.
Might try it.


I am thinking of getting a Line 6 TonePort. It seems to spare a lot of heavy preparation. And as proved you can get some badass sounds out of it, I am thinking of the guitar sounds on Hubnester - Samurai Soul Hunters (if they now used GP for that one) and Gimme More.

But is there any other manufacturer of amp emulation stuff that is worth checking out. Or is Line 6 completely the best?
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on January 06, 2008, 11:06:06 pm
Ofcourse not.
Boss, Korg, Roland.. to name a few.

 
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: grey on July 13, 2008, 08:44:39 pm
gt-10 vs line 6 pod xt live - which one would you choose?  ::)
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: megashroom° on July 14, 2008, 12:06:55 am
gt-10 vs line 6 pod xt live - which one would you choose?  ::)

GT-10 is better :).
XT Live has been around for a few years now, and is like as good as GT-8.
The Line 6 challenger to BOSS GT-10 is Line 6 X3.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Blue Devil on July 26, 2008, 06:26:41 am
Personally, I use a Line6 Guitarport, but instead of using the Cabinet simulator that comes with it, I use a program called Guitar Rig 3 by Native Instruments.  It costs some extra cash, but it's entirely worth it. I can't even go back to the original Guitarport program without feeling restricted by it.
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: megashroom° on July 26, 2008, 09:22:45 pm
Personally, I use a Line6 Guitarport, but instead of using the Cabinet simulator that comes with it, I use a program called Guitar Rig 3 by Native Instruments.  It costs some extra cash, but it's entirely worth it. I can't even go back to the original Guitarport program without feeling restricted by it.

I've tested both Guitar Rig 3 and Gearbox. To me Gearbox sounds far more realiastic.
The only thing I use is Guitar Rig 3 for is making cool sound effects. It has some awsome effects stuff :).
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Lysix on July 27, 2008, 09:18:17 pm
just acquired guitar rig 3. thanks for mentioning it [:
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: H on August 31, 2010, 01:33:45 am
Ok, I feel I need to contribute this to anyone who is doing home recording & don't have real drums on hand. Something that seems to work for me pretty well & I've had fantastic results so far.

Ok, so.

Raise your hand if you have a drum program. Any one at all. *raises hand* Good ;D

In my case....don't laugh.....I'm using a horribly OLD....OLD....OLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLD....drum program DEMO...Fruity Loops PRO 2.54. We're talking ancient here.

Why am using this? I'm familiar with it, I didn't have to buy it, it doesn't expire, & I don't have any way to torrent anything else (that & I refuse to....even tho I'd love something that SAVES what the fuck I'm working on....not to mention video editing software....but I digress) :p

Anyway, Robert was correct in saying that anything you record yourself should be Mono. Bass, guitars, vocals, every'ting.

But the drums.....

....well, let's just say that, unless you have the capability to record multiple tracks all at once (ie more than 8, 10, 12, 16, etc), & are able to dedicate a single track for your digital drums (hi hat, bass kick, snare, toms, cymbols, etc etc etc), you're probably not going to want to make any part of the drums Mono.

So what to do?

Well, in my case, since I have a shit program, I set my digital kit up well in advance. I make a track, get the beats/fills/patterns excatly how I like them, & then I careful adjust the volume of each piece of the kit (while still in the drum program), paying as much attention as humanly possible to make sure not a single piece of my kit is too loud/too soft/oddly placed in the sound spectrum. I make heavy use of the stereo capabilites within the drum program to make sure every piece sounds exactly where I want it.

It's a ton of effort, but it's worth it.

Then, once I'm happy with how it sounds, I export/save the .wav file. Normally, it defaults to Mono while saving, but I check the Stereo option (or Uncheck the Mono option in your program) to make sure that the sound of my digital kit is preserved.

Then, I take my drum track into my recording program.

In my program (Cakewalk guitar tracks), I get an option called "Stereo Split" when I import a .wav file. I love this option, because it not only preserves the stereo sound of my kit when I load it, but it loads the track hard left & hard right.

MEANING that no matter where in the mix I record everything (dead center, mid left, mid right, etc), it isn't stepping on the toes of the drum track, meaning that the full sound of the kit is preserved quite well. :)

If you don't get an option in your program like stereo split (or if your stereo drums are jammed into a single track instead of 2), you may be able to use an editing program like Goldwave or something to rip the track in 2, & save them drums_L & drums_R. Then you can put them into your recording program in 2 different tracks to get that stereo feel back.

*checks Goldwave*

Yup, you can. :)


Now I'm sure all of you guys have better EVERYTHING than me (drum progs, recording progs, guitars, mixing progs, etc) but this has been working for me quite weill lately. And since I'm limited to only 8 tracks with my recording program, having the other 6 tracks free to record everything else (while still having every single piece of my digital kit) is quite awsome. ;D



Hopefully this helps someone. If not, feel free to tell me I'm wrong, I suck, & all that jazz. :p
Title: Re: Music Recording - DIY Style
Post by: Jack Lupino on September 08, 2010, 03:06:31 pm
You see a lot of people cling to their setups, as guitar players always have some sort of "safety blanket" always bitching about 'their sound' and whatnot, i find it a lot more fun to try out new stuff everytime until i find something that suits me, and actually SOUNDS BETTER.

Right now i'm running Cubase SX3, Superior Drummer 2.0, Programmed in Fruityloops 9 XXXL Studio, record guitars with a Line 6 UX2 Studio Pod, And record vocals with my condensator MLX Mic. I run my mixes through audition 3.0 since it has one of the most powerful compression methods i've come across and for further tinkering it's just an accesible program with nice shortcuts ^_^

First: Lets look over some critical 'dirt guitar' EQ ranges and how they affect the myriad of choices/possibilities we might wish to examine in our undertaking. Bottom to top.

20-45Hz.    Never say never. Just say rarely.
50-90hz    Ahh the madness. Here's the 'swing' range in our 'chugging'.
100-150    Bottom of the meat.
180-240    Lo-Center of the meat.
250-320    Hi-Center of the meat.
340-650    Danger Will Robinson. Top of meat/Bottom of mids. CRITICAL.
700-900    More danger. Hard to hear. Kills 'newbies' on contact. Will explain.
950-1.2k    Pure Satan. Make or break ya. Easy to hear. Hard to control.
1.3k-1.6k    Ditto the above.
1.7k-2.2k    Top of the mids/Bottom of pick attack range. Oh, the fear.
2.3k-3.1k    Middle of pick range. Picky de poison. Mucho Satania.
3.2k-4.2k    Top of pick range. Pick out a nice coffin. Yer gonna need it.
4.3k-6.5k    Bottom of fizz. Add Beefeaters for gin fizz. Guzzle many glasses.
6.6k-8k.    Top of fizzy. Many will kill this range ruthlessly. Careful. Can O' wormies.
8k-10k    Road to hell. Paved with good intentions. Enjoy. Not.
10-15k    Less obvious road(s) to hell. Gravel. Lose a windshield up here.
15k-25k    Same disclaimer as 25-40Hz. Can you say 'sometimes bandwidth matters'?

OK. DISCLAIMER TIME FOR "OLD GUYS". I'm describing the Grand Canyon. We both know it. Can't REALLY be done.

Gimmie some rope and I'll hang myself impressively. Stop laughing, you pricks.
By the way fellas, we're STILL tracking. It's gonna get WORSE in mix.

Let's just talk about EQ APPROACHES.

Schools of thought.

School 1: Capture it ALL.
School 2: Capture it ALL but capture LESS of what yer pretty sure yer not going to use much of later.
School 3: Capture MOSTLY what you want with a TINY nod to the wacky shit.
School 4: Fuck everyone. Capture ONLY what you like. HAMMER the fuck out of everything else.
School 5: Shit pants in terror. Return to recording rap with SP1200.