Author Topic: Deep Stuff  (Read 8063 times)

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Offline Crimzen

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Deep Stuff
« on: February 22, 2012, 01:09:50 am »
Now in terms of the order of things in the world. In life. How do you see it? Through your own eyes and your own beliefs. Do you not care or do you have specific thoughts about the world and why we're all here? I definitely don't want this to spark any arguments or wars. This is strictly just a point of view and should be taken as such. Any super depth convos of people debating should go to PM.

For me, I come from a Christian background. Although not growing up believing that church is everything (which I am glad for), I did grow up with the specific belief of One God. A God that created all living things and beings. I believe that He had a Son, Jesus Christ, and that through Him we can obtain salvation and reach Heaven when we die. That's my basic belief module. And no I don't want to debate you on this, I just like to hear other peoples points of view. I find it interesting.

A friend of mine told me that he believes that good and evil are one in the same. That there is no Heaven or Hell but life continues to move forward always. Sometimes the Earth needs to reset itself and regrow. There needs to be one or the other constant battling and that by finding Enlightment you can rebirth into the next life in total consciousness and know everything from your past life because you completed the test of figuring out what you're meant to be. Otherwise when you die you are reborn as another normal person trying to figure it out all over again.

This just seemed interesting to me. While his beliefs are totally different than my own. I don't force my beliefs on others or tell people that my ways is the only way and is correct. I love to hear other peoples opinions and beliefs. So on that note I leave it to you. Tell me what you believe :)

Offline yas‮

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 09:02:55 am »
As for me, I believe that the world as we know now wasn't created by some superhuman being, but it rather evolved by the processes well explained by modern science. I also believe that there is no overall "bad", nor "good" - there are things that you personally approve and disapprove deep down in your conscience. In the end it's just a matter of opinion, hence ie. some people consider killing for faith a good thing, others don't. And which side do you choose doesn't really matter after you die, it only matters if you care to leave you want to leave your mark as a success or a failure. There's no heaven nor hell, you just fade away. And maybe you wake up unplugged from something like the Matrix or (most probably) you just rot buried in the ground - we won't know 'till it gets proven. And it won't.

I'm open-minded, so I'd believe in god if someone would scientifically explain his existence, cause right now people are killing each other in the name of something that exists with as much probability as an Invisible Pink Unicorn. The only real "religion" right now is ethics, which some people don't even care about and that makes them a kind of heretics, which we don't have the power to expel from the society as a sort of atheist excommunication. The law is not perfect and will never be.

I think believing in something supernatural is pretty much pointless. Either you get your expectations about the meaning of life too high or too low. It's best to just live your life and do your best, and if there's nothing after - it's exactly as expected, but if there is something - you'd be pleasantly surprised. A win-win situation.

Offline Aeon

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 04:20:17 pm »
I think that to live is to suffer. It feels like avoiding suffering is one of our main driving factors. I don't know why we are here, except for reasons we ourselves think up, and to propagate life. My own goals are promotion of chaos, discord, and unrest. To make life more interesting and to keep things from going stagnant. To listen to other people's stories and to tell my own.

I was brought up in a Catholic family, but never really liked going to church. So I started to seek my own faith. And it's not going well, to be honest with you. I am leaning significantly towards the teachings of Buddhism, but my faith seems weak. I question things a lot.

But it might be the case that we really have no soul. No one version of us, just separate streams of thought. After we die, we might simply be reborn as another entity. Or cease to exist altogether. Whatever the thing that we originated from is, it seems to be perpetual and infinite. I wonder if we are a part of a greater whole. We, as humans, are made of lots and lots of smaller living organisms. Maybe the universe we live in is a part of a greater whole that we cannot really reach yet, because apparently the boundaries of known 'Verse are constantly expanding at the speed of light. Maybe the world started as one, and only one, great, singular, uniform thing, before time began and the universe formed. Maybe there never was a start for it. Maybe it always was and always will be. Something so alien it existed before time itself. The great void or something. Blah, theorizing about it boggles the mind. Basically wherever science cannot get, your imagination starts to fill in the gaps. :S
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Offline Crimzen

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 05:48:00 pm »
Awesome, I appreciate you guys speaking your beliefs! I like to hear other people's point of view and what they believe :) Keep it up! The more theories and paths you come across you take into your own belief post them here and share! I see 'religion' or 'faith' as a briefcase. It's not all one set thing, but you pick up on things that sound good to you that fit your life and what you think is right. Be it spiritual or unseen or scientific and real as your hand in your face. Put it in your briefcase and keep on walking down your path of life :D

Offline Tolkki

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 07:29:24 pm »
As for me, I believe that the world as we know now wasn't created by some superhuman being, but it rather evolved by the processes well explained by modern science. I also believe that there is no overall "bad", nor "good" - there are things that you personally approve and disapprove deep down in your conscience. In the end it's just a matter of opinion, hence ie. some people consider killing for faith a good thing, others don't. And which side do you choose doesn't really matter after you die, it only matters if you care to leave you want to leave your mark as a success or a failure. There's no heaven nor hell, you just fade away. And maybe you wake up unplugged from something like the Matrix or (most probably) you just rot buried in the ground - we won't know 'till it gets proven. And it won't.

I'm open-minded, so I'd believe in god if someone would scientifically explain his existence, cause right now people are killing each other in the name of something that exists with as much probability as an Invisible Pink Unicorn. The only real "religion" right now is ethics, which some people don't even care about and that makes them a kind of heretics, which we don't have the power to expel from the society as a sort of atheist excommunication. The law is not perfect and will never be.

I think believing in something supernatural is pretty much pointless. Either you get your expectations about the meaning of life too high or too low. It's best to just live your life and do your best, and if there's nothing after - it's exactly as expected, but if there is something - you'd be pleasantly surprised. A win-win situation.
I agree with this view alot, though not completely. I have never, not even as a child, believed to god or to any such power because it doesn't make sense to me. Even if gods existance would be somehow scientifically proved, I would still probably doubt it for a long time. I come from a not-so religious family, as my father isn't believing (atleast seems to be) and my mother is only little religious. I belive that after death, you just die and your body stops functioning, thats all. I also believe that souls don't exist and I don't truly even know what a soul is. And therefore there cant be either hell or heaven, as there's no part of body that could separate from your and somehow live without you.

Although my view of world is quite scientifical and I'm quite sure it is realistic, I would still like to understand those who believe to god. As it's quite likely that there are some believers in this forum also (LuckysRevenge being one), I would like to question you on what makes you believe to god? Has he/she/it spoken to you and that way made you certain of it''s existance, or have you just taken the belief without even questioning it? I have wanted to know some more of you people who are in belief, but none of my friends believe (or I just don't know it) so I haven't been able to ask anyone for more information. So, I would be pleased if you would answer.
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Offline Crimzen

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 08:14:57 pm »
Sure I'd love to do that, I'll send you a PM with my response!

Offline Leissi

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 12:05:21 am »
The way I see life is...
Well, it's all a game. On a grander scale than any of us could ever imagine. I believe we, as human beings, our bodies, are mere vessels for souls during our timeless existence outside time and space. I believe we are bound to this body only temporarily.

That is, until we die. Or the vessel does.

I believe in an immortal soul, and that we all are gods of sorts inside.
I believe we are all playing our part in this game of life, and only in the end does the veil of forgetfulness rise and reveal the stage. A stage ready for the show.
I believe that after death we have all the time we could ever need to communicate with other souls like we had been the oldest buddies since forever.

Good? Evil?
It does not matter, it is the part we have chosen before being born, maybe even before our parents, their parents etc had been born. I believe this choice is not limited to humans beings, but everything around us.


I believe there are 'Higher beings' in this three-dimensional cycle of what we call 'life' and 'reality', and that they are, or were, here as a service to others so they themselves could attain a higher level of existence, all the way until the final, infinite Creator.
Who/what the infinite creator is, I cannot say. Maybe she/he/it doesn't exist at all. Maybe it's a one-dimensional string. Maybe it's a nine-dimensional cloud of sentience with eyes of gold, silver and colors we cannot comprehend.

I cannot believe in the Christian teachings of only one ultimate God (Yahweh). The Eden Project was a toy for him which worked fine until humans were given the possibility of choice, and we all know how it ended, or at least how we are told it ended. (The tree of life and the fruit of knowledge)
I believe other gods "moved in" while Yahweh, a most jealous god, tried to keep all humans under his control. This obviously didn't work on all, and some chose to turn to the others.
Granted, Yahweh might've been here 'first', but it's surely not the only one.

I believe it all ultimately boils down to a choice: Service to Self, or service to Others.
We are not on this earth to learn what we are, but what we aren't.

What mote of truth, an atom of certainty, a grain of reality is in this belief I cannot explain. It just feels somehow right to me.

This is what I choose to believe in.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 12:11:40 am by Leissi »
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Offline Aeon

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 01:18:40 am »
(continuation of my post)
...But it might also be the case that we really are "the universe talking to itself, testing its own code", as said in Minecraft. And that in the end we disappear to reunite with it and fuel its processes. And maybe that this is all but an elaborate dream and I am not real, not even you are, but in the end the reality will fold to nothingness and unfold again, creating another world, randomizing the variables and generating a place for consciousness to thrive in. Which would ultimately mean that the Great Unknown Something makes new worlds every time it wants to insert a consciousness. Which might be exactly one time, depending on the nature of our consciousness. If there are souls or not after all, or if we all count as one.
Or maybe the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics is correct, so that every now and then the world branches off. Maybe once every day, more likely an infinite amount of times every 0.(0)1 second. For instance, in one of the resulting realities, I die, but in the other one, I am alive and well. Maybe somewhere 9/11 never happened. Or life never started to exist. Or there never was any Big Bang. So the world is a sum of all quantum states it ever was in or could have been in. It would be literally unlimited and we would only be living in a small quantum sub-branch of worlds in which nothing unusual happens. An infinite stream of states, dating beyond the beginning of time. Maybe it never went anywhere. Maybe time is only a property of our world. Maybe not. Maybe there are pink unicorns somewhere.

It may sound cold and alien. But then again, it would mean that everything is actually possible. So perhaps we are making actual worlds that exist somewhere long after we have forgotten about them. Our imagination may gain consciousness and live on elsewhere. Does this universe expand or contract, then? Is it zero-sum? Or really infinite?
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Offline gaijin

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 10:21:23 am »
We're born. We're responsible for filling our lives with whatever we find makes sense. Then we die, and our consciousness ends while our bodies rot.


That's it.
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Offline Crimzen

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 11:20:22 am »
Very interesting. This has turned in to quite a nice thread. Thanks for all your input! I have enjoyed reading everyone's even gajin's short and sweet response :)

It's a very interesting topic for me. Regardless of my beliefs it's always still a big wonder to me and it's always got me thinking and questioning and evolving.

Offline Aeon

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 04:02:14 pm »
...Then there is the point of view shared by Gaijin, that there is birth and death. That life is the only form of consciousness. And then it ends. Sometimes I wonder if we can make machines conscious and self-aware. Cleverbot already feels incredibly human-like, but in the end all it can do is talk. Generate replies, basing on the input and its database. That, however, is off-topic.

And maybe that is just it. Time is absolute, and somewhere along the line, you are born. People who have been in clinical death and are believed to have seen the other side mostly spoke of the light at the end of the tunnel, but it might be their brain releasing a surge of stimulants upon its death (specifically, a massive surge of psychoactive DMT released from the pineal gland). So far nobody has proven that there is anything on the other side, and it does not seem like anyone ever will. It feels only natural to state that death is the definite end of consciousness.

And so apparently we are here, in this random world, completely by coincidence. Only because living beings have developed brains and consciousness.

Maybe. Most likely. That's the problem, it is hard to get an actual, hard, proof. But, like I said, most likely.
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Offline gaijin

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 05:20:32 pm »
...Then there is the point of view shared by Gaijin, that there is birth and death. That life is the only form of consciousness. And then it ends. Sometimes I wonder if we can make machines conscious and self-aware. Cleverbot already feels incredibly human-like, but in the end all it can do is talk. Generate replies, basing on the input and its database. That, however, is off-topic.

I refer you to the Technological Singularity.
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Offline Gravehill

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 12:39:08 pm »
I do believe in God. My roots are in protestant Evangelic-Lutherian and in Orthodox faith... Also there's some things that go down in my heritage... some sort of odd beliefs, customs and things. I consider myself christian without any specific church. That's because (this is my personal belief not meant to offend anyone) churches are the ones who divide people instead of uniting them, they are institutes of control - they are human driven institutes of greed and hypocrisy. Instead of trying to see how sinful others are and thus trying to make me look better than I am I try to grow spiritually and as human without any form of church behind me. That path is a thing between me and my God only, so I see it...
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Offline evilcandybag

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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 06:26:55 pm »
I'm on Gaijin's stance here, albeit a bit more to the agnostic side. I'm open to the existence of anything as long as I can see some convincing proof.

However, I find the thought of submission to a nameless higher power quite repulsive. If a God or gods turned up to be actually real, and demanded the kind of submission most religions (in particular the biblical ones) demand, I'd probably be joining a resistance movement just as I would if the Russians invaded and tried to impose Russian laws.
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Re: Deep Stuff
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 09:04:10 pm »
I'm on Gaijin's stance here, albeit a bit more to the agnostic side. I'm open to the existence of anything as long as I can see some convincing proof.

However, I find the thought of submission to a nameless higher power quite repulsive. If a God or gods turned up to be actually real, and demanded the kind of submission most religions (in particular the biblical ones) demand, I'd probably be joining a resistance movement just as I would if the Russians invaded and tried to impose Russian laws.

I didn't particularly want to post here, considering I probably wouldn't be able to find the words that explained my views, but Mr. Candybag here has summed up my view perfectly.