Author Topic: Go back to bed, your government is in control  (Read 17855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline evilcandybag

  • of Fire
  • Global Moderator
  • Machinae Prime
  • *****
  • Posts: 3152
  • Karma: 66
  • Gender: Male
  • Armoured Tanks of Mass Destruction
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2011, 09:54:25 pm »
There were explosives in the towers, which Bush admitted to in his speech like a complete retard[...]
Does anyone have source on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnxe7hxP4I&feature=related

Sounds to me that he simply said "explosives" instead of "explosions". Seriously, do you think they'd write him a speech like that if there was a conspiracy?
"Actually, wooden stakes are for vampires. Wooden steaks are for vegetarians."

Offline cloudstrifex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Karma: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2011, 10:19:07 pm »
There were explosives in the towers, which Bush admitted to in his speech like a complete retard[...]
Does anyone have source on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnxe7hxP4I&feature=related

Sounds to me that he simply said "explosives" instead of "explosions". Seriously, do you think they'd write him a speech like that if there was a conspiracy?

That's what I said as well. And yes there is a possibility; these people already know their plan is working so why should they care? That speech wasn't particularly aimed at 9/11, it just explains the tactics the party responsible for these kinds of events uses.

Casper

  • Guest
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2011, 06:12:05 pm »
This is the only part I disagree with. No matter how much a government censors, controls, and bans, they can never EVER take away a person's ability to think freely. Although we may not be able to speak our minds, our freedom of thought is something that cannot be taken away. It is the only true freedom we can always have.


At the moment this bares some truth. But as technology advances and science continues to thrive (and it will), they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

With that being said, in the coming years oil will not be the most prized resource on our planet. It'll be information and how we can transport it safely and securely without compromise. It'll create a lucrative underground economy, no doubt, because where there is demand, there is always a supply.

Offline finaleclipse06

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Karma: -8
  • Gender: Male
  • Why can't the plural of 'moose' be 'mooses'????
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2011, 07:40:56 am »
This is the only part I disagree with. No matter how much a government censors, controls, and bans, they can never EVER take away a person's ability to think freely. Although we may not be able to speak our minds, our freedom of thought is something that cannot be taken away. It is the only true freedom we can always have.


At the moment this bares some truth. But as technology advances and science continues to thrive (and it will), they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

With that being said, in the coming years oil will not be the most prized resource on our planet. It'll be information and how we can transport it safely and securely without compromise. It'll create a lucrative underground economy, no doubt, because where there is demand, there is always a supply.

Anti-depressants don't make you unnaturally happy. The way they work is based on the brain's chemistry. They raise the levels of norepinephrine and serotonin in the brain, which are low in depressed people. That being said, anti-depressants help to bring a person out of depression and back to a normal level of functioning.

The YouTube video that was linked to a few posts back seriously lacks context. I read quite a few of the comments on the video and there were a few that mentioned that the 37 second clip is actually referring to attempted attacks on the World Trade Center from several years before 2001. To be fair, not having seen the whole speech, I don't know how accurate those claims are. But without context, anything can be misleading. Is there a video of the entire speech?

Being an idealist, I guess my view isn't so glum as some of yours are. I do try to stay realistic though, but it's not always easy.  :P I'm not trying to offend anyone on here, so I apologize in advance if I do, but I think the whole New World Order/Freemason/Illuminati/etc. thing is way too overblown. Considering how many countries have vastly different religions, ideologies, and ways of thought from each other, and that a few of them seem to be directly opposed in their extremist forms (i.e. Christianity and Islam, democracy and dictatorship) and that several religions/philosophies are mutually exclusive (i.e. Judaism, Christianity, Islam) while several others are open to incorporation of other philosophies (i.e. Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, Shinto) it seems rather far-fetched to assume that there is one very small group of people who is able to decide the fate of the billions of unlike-minded people on this planet.

Strictly speaking about American politics (because that's the only one I know anything about) I do think that money and power have far too much influence, and that should be checked. If I remember correctly, there are some checks on it, such as not allowing a certain type of donor to give an unlimited supply of money to a candidate, but they're not very effective. Something that I think should have been in place from the start is term limits for congressmen. Being in power for as long as many of America's congressmen have, that power starts to become ingrained in who they are, and it detracts from their purpose of making laws that benefit America as a whole. I also think that new congressmen shouldn't be allowed to have political, legal, or corporate backgrounds, because many people from those types of backgrounds who are able to run for congress have already had a taste of power. They should be well-educated, open-minded, have a good understanding of current events and how history has affected and determined them, and be dedicated to doing what is best for everyone and everything. The previous sentence was intended to cover the possibility that what may be best for America may not be what's best for other countries or the environment, because I don't really want to get into a discourse on all of that right now.

Offline harvey danger

  • Machinae Prime
  • *****
  • Posts: 4289
  • Karma: 49
  • Gender: Male
  • Werd
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2011, 09:53:57 pm »
This is the only part I disagree with. No matter how much a government censors, controls, and bans, they can never EVER take away a person's ability to think freely. Although we may not be able to speak our minds, our freedom of thought is something that cannot be taken away. It is the only true freedom we can always have.


At the moment this bares some truth. But as technology advances and science continues to thrive (and it will), they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

With that being said, in the coming years oil will not be the most prized resource on our planet. It'll be information and how we can transport it safely and securely without compromise. It'll create a lucrative underground economy, no doubt, because where there is demand, there is always a supply.

Anti-depressants don't make you unnaturally happy. The way they work is based on the brain's chemistry. They raise the levels of norepinephrine and serotonin in the brain, which are low in depressed people. That being said, anti-depressants help to bring a person out of depression and back to a normal level of functioning.

Thank you for explaining this to him. Saying anti-depressants make a person "unnaturally happy" shows a severe ignorance of both depression and the drugs used to treat it.

I am not being "controlled" by the drug I am taking (which is currently the lowest possible dosage to effectively elevate my mood), and I am not some zombie that just floats through life on a cloud of oblivious contentedness. I have been restored to a normal level of function from six years of a severely debilitating problem with my brain chemistry and have regained the ability to actually live my life. It doesn't just stop me from "thinking bad things," which is an extremely simplistic way to put it; it gives me motivation to get out of bed before 2 P.M., to actually be social with other human beings, and to have a desire to do things outside of my room. It's cured my insomnia and helps me sleep better than I ever did without it. It has brought on a whole host of changes to my life that enable me to be me again. I have lived six years of my life being defined by my depression. I have gone through high school and college with my own personality constantly, barely out of reach, unable to make the connection that was needed to function correctly. Now I am finally happy.

Depression is a complicated mental-health problem and affects different people in wildly different ways. I cannot speak for everyone that has ever been depressed or ever will be. For me, however, who has tried every possible solution to depression that was not a drug, anti-depressants have been the solution to a long period of absolute misery and inability to function. To take such a presumptuous attitude, Lysander, is offensive to me, and frankly, puts you on the same level as Tom Cruise. Educate yo'self.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 10:09:22 pm by Harvey Danger »
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline gaijin

  • Hiding behind the couch
  • Community Supporter
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • "You sound like the Morning Star"
    • Motljus
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2011, 10:41:36 pm »
This is the only part I disagree with. No matter how much a government censors, controls, and bans, they can never EVER take away a person's ability to think freely. Although we may not be able to speak our minds, our freedom of thought is something that cannot be taken away. It is the only true freedom we can always have.


At the moment this bares some truth. But as technology advances and science continues to thrive (and it will), they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

With that being said, in the coming years oil will not be the most prized resource on our planet. It'll be information and how we can transport it safely and securely without compromise. It'll create a lucrative underground economy, no doubt, because where there is demand, there is always a supply.

Anti-depressants don't make you unnaturally happy. The way they work is based on the brain's chemistry. They raise the levels of norepinephrine and serotonin in the brain, which are low in depressed people. That being said, anti-depressants help to bring a person out of depression and back to a normal level of functioning.

Thank you for explaining this to him. Saying anti-depressants make a person "unnaturally happy" shows a severe ignorance of both depression and the drugs used to treat it.

I am not being "controlled" by the drug I am taking (which is currently the lowest possible dosage to effectively elevate my mood), and I am not some zombie that just floats through life on a cloud of oblivious contentedness. I have been restored to a normal level of function from six years of a severely debilitating problem with my brain chemistry and have regained the ability to actually live my life. It doesn't just stop me from "thinking bad things," which is an extremely simplistic way to put it; it gives me motivation to get out of bed before 2 P.M., to actually be social with other human beings, and to have a desire to do things outside of my room. It's cured my insomnia and helps me sleep better than I ever did without it. It has brought on a whole host of changes to my life that enable me to be me again. I have lived six years of my life being defined by my depression. I have gone through high school and college with my own personality constantly, barely out of reach, unable to make the connection that was needed to function correctly. Now I am finally happy.

Depression is a complicated mental-health problem and affects different people in wildly different ways. I cannot speak for everyone that has ever been depressed or ever will be. For me, however, who has tried every possible solution to depression that was not a drug, anti-depressants have been the solution to a long period of absolute misery and inability to function. To take such a presumptuous attitude, Lysander, is offensive to me, and frankly, puts you on the same level as Tom Cruise. Educate yo'self.

QFT, +1 karma and a free blowjob. Word, bitches.
Oi, is this when I get a huge sig-image, start whining about "moar sid" and make nonsensical arguments to no good?

Casper

  • Guest
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2011, 06:07:34 pm »
Thank you for explaining this to him. Saying anti-depressants make a person "unnaturally happy" shows a severe ignorance of both depression and the drugs used to treat it.
blahblahblahiwasdepressednowimnotlolpeelz

Firstly, get fucked. I am not ignorant and the fact you even come to this assumption makes you more "ignorant" than anyone else contributing to this discussion.

Secondly, don't take it so seriously. I used it as an example, as to the progression in technologies used to control peoples thinking and how the government can use this to their advantage. That's why I gave a simplistic attitude towards it. You're depressed, fantastic, I know others who are, and I've seen first hand what these pills can do in extreme cases. So don't you dare try to adopt the holier than thou attitude to me, Harvey, because your personal vendetta is completely irrelevant to what I was trying to say. PM me and have a go at me if you want, would love to attempt a discussion with you out of this thread.

Anti depressants CHANGE a persons mindset, whether its by chemically screwing with their system or otherwise. They are a drug, right? Drugs induce certain emotional states. They do this by controlling, forcing their way forward. It isn't "normal" for someone who is depressed to be happy, so making them so BY THE AID OF AN EXTERNAL SUBSTANCE is  technically unnatural. So think about what the government can do if they put a bit of research into it. My point was that they can make pills that control how you think. It was NOT a dig against you.


On the flip side, have you met this guy? I think you may have a lot in common.

QFT, +1 karma and a free blowjob. Word, bitches.

Not bothered if this gets me banned (which, knowing your angst-ridden trigger finger, it probably will), but here's a request; if you have nothing productive to say could you just...shut up? Thanks, gajgjgijgijgin.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 06:22:20 pm by Lysander »

Offline harvey danger

  • Machinae Prime
  • *****
  • Posts: 4289
  • Karma: 49
  • Gender: Male
  • Werd
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2011, 06:52:18 pm »
Thank you for explaining this to him. Saying anti-depressants make a person "unnaturally happy" shows a severe ignorance of both depression and the drugs used to treat it.
blahblahblahiwasdepressednowimnotlolpeelz

Firstly, get fucked. I am not ignorant and the fact you even come to this assumption makes you more "ignorant" than anyone else contributing to this discussion.

Secondly, don't take it so seriously. I used it as an example, as to the progression in technologies used to control peoples thinking and how the government can use this to their advantage. That's why I gave a simplistic attitude towards it. You're depressed, fantastic, I know others who are, and I've seen first hand what these pills can do in extreme cases. So don't you dare try to adopt the holier than thou attitude to me, Harvey, because your personal vendetta is completely irrelevant to what I was trying to say. PM me and have a go at me if you want, would love to attempt a discussion with you out of this thread.

Anti depressants CHANGE a persons mindset, whether its by chemically screwing with their system or otherwise. They are a drug, right? Drugs induce certain emotional states. They do this by controlling, forcing their way forward. It isn't "normal" for someone who is depressed to be happy, so making them so BY THE AID OF AN EXTERNAL SUBSTANCE is  technically unnatural. So think about what the government can do if they put a bit of research into it. My point was that they can make pills that control how you think. It was NOT a dig against you.

I will take it seriously, because it is people saying things like what you said that cause so many problems for those with mental-health issues of all kinds. There is no reason to give a simplistic attitude towards it outside of lack of understanding, and using it as a pillar for an argument for how the big bad government can control us is even worse. FWIW, making the point (it's not an assumption when you give me evidence) that you are ignorant to the issue at hand is also not a "dig," and there is no "personal vendetta." The fact that you have seen what medication can do and you still write things like this is simply mind-boggling and tells me that you either aren't learning or refuse to learn in order to support your own bias, and at the very least have decided to throw what you have learned out the window in order to make a point. See: "pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy."

The thing you fail to understand is that although depression is NATURAL, it is not NORMAL. It's right there in the definitions of the words, broseph. The drugs used are indeed UNNATURAL, but it is to return people to a NORMAL state of function. See how it works?

Person X gets cancer. Well, cancer is certainly NATURAL in many cases, but it is not NORMAL, otherwise the majority of people would have it. Person X gets chemotherapy to remove the cancer, which is UNNATURAL, but in the long-term returns his body to a NORMAL state of function, that is, sans-cancer.

Regardless of the massive failure in your vocabulary, your point is superfluous because it supports nothing regarding "what the government can do." This could be true of any drug, and any food, and any water source. OH NOES FLUORIDE IS EVERYWHERE. Wild speculation does not an argument make, and once again, anti-depressants do not alter the brain enough or in the correct fashion to give anyone control over another person's mind or stop them from thinking dissenting political thoughts. They barely alter brain chemistry to allow it to do the brainy things it's supposed to do, nothing more, nothing less. Greater dosages have greater effects, same as any drug, different drugs affect different people in different ways, same as any drug, and they have side-effects, same as any drug. For them to do what you think they could do, they would have to be a completely different subset of drugs.

If you feel like talking more about junk like this go make a 1984 book club and stop polluting the forums.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 07:00:06 pm by Harvey Danger »
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Casper

  • Guest
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2011, 06:59:30 pm »
The fact that you have seen what medication can do and you still write things like this is simply mind-boggling and tells me that you either aren't learning or refuse to learn in order to support your own bias

I'm not saying the treatments are bad, and you're completely blowing this out of proportion. And I have absolutely no idea where you're getting half these points from regarding my refusal to learn.

The drugs used are indeed UNNATURAL
Ergo, they make you UNNATURALLY HAPPY, broseph. Unnaturally as in they are doing something that you as human aren't doing on your own. We could spend all day arguing what is normal, why it's considered normal and the social stereotypes and all that bullshit.

Regardless of the massive failure in your vocabulary
Wat

your point is superfluous because it supports nothing regarding "what the government can do." This could be true of any drug, and any food, and any water source. OH NOES FLUORIDE IS EVERYWHERE.

EXACTLY. I'll say it again, what I said was an EXAMPLE. They could put shit like that in anything, you're right, and that was kinda what I was implying. Evidently your butthurt about depression saw past that and instead we've now derailed into something completely pointless.

 
anti-depressants do not alter the brain enough or in the correct fashion to give anyone control over another person's mind or stop them from thinking dissenting thoughts.
What the hell? I never said they did!
I'll try this once more. I used the concept of anti depressants as an example to show how they could MAKE DIFFERENT PILLS TO CONTROL HOW PEOPLE THINK. I did not once (nor did I intend to) imply that anti depressants turn people into mindless drones. I'm sorry if that's what you thought I meant, though, but I'm not that insensitive.

Go back to reading 1984.

Go back to being depressed? I don't know :P

Offline harvey danger

  • Machinae Prime
  • *****
  • Posts: 4289
  • Karma: 49
  • Gender: Male
  • Werd
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2011, 07:07:21 pm »
Quote
they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

"Such things," being "devices or substances that controls you," and which are deemed "normal and a part of our everyday lives," are anti-depressants. That is the argument you made. The argument implies that anti-depressants are bad by virtue of their ability to "control" people and do "unnatural" things," and thus are prime for being used for government control, which is bad. Maybe it is not the one you intended, but it's the one you made. The main point that I was contending, though, was "pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy."

If it was just a misunderstanding then I'm happy to leave it at that.
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Casper

  • Guest
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2011, 07:11:38 pm »
Quote
they will eventually create a device or substance that controls you.
Such things are already in circulation and, thus, deemed normal and a part of our everyday lives. Look at anti-depressants; pills designed to stop you thinking bad things and instead be unnaturally happy.

"Such things," being "devices or substances that controls you," and which are deemed "normal and a part of our everyday lives," are anti-depressants. That is the argument you made. The argument implies that anti-depressants are bad by virtue of their ability to "control" people and do "unnatural" things," and thus are prime for being used for government control, which is bad. Maybe it is not the one you intended, but it's the one you made.

If it was just a misunderstanding then I'm happy to leave it at that.

What I meant was that there are already things that can alter your state of mind, which is what we both know they do (even if positively). My point was that if something like that can make it into mainstream consumption then who knows what could be made years from now? I didn't mean to say that anti depressants themselves are bad, but you can see how they do somewhat "control" someone in that it changes ones pattern of thoughts. So, no, I don't mean that those in particular are going to be used to turn people into government-worshipping zombies. It's hard to explain it, but that's not what I meant.

And yeah, maybe to most people that idea is absolutely absurd. But in all honesty we're not half as "free" as the government like us to believe we are. Political Correctness is a prime example of them forcing people to change the way they think and speak, albeit in a rather primitive form.

Quote
If you feel like talking more about junk like this go make a 1984 book club and stop polluting the forums.

Bit of an odd comment considering the OP said;

Quote
If our access to information is limited we should see this as a serious warning. Why? Because it means that someone is trying to control how we think by controlling what we know

And there are a plethora of ways they can control the way we think. Limiting the free flow of information is but one of them.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 07:17:14 pm by Lysander »

Offline gaijin

  • Hiding behind the couch
  • Community Supporter
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • "You sound like the Morning Star"
    • Motljus
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2011, 10:28:56 pm »
Ok, so.. this bickering stops right now. It was a misundertsanding, and thus the argument is ended.

And to make things a wee bit more clear, most anti-dep-meds don't add anything to the brain at all. They just block the reuptake of serotonin from the postsynapsis, which in turn will keep seorotonin levels from sinking too fast. But that is beside the point.


Behave, or begone.
Oi, is this when I get a huge sig-image, start whining about "moar sid" and make nonsensical arguments to no good?

Offline cloudstrifex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Karma: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2011, 11:00:10 pm »
I'm just going to chime in here real quick. Antidepressants treat the symptoms of an illness, not the cause. You can take them all you want but the fact remains it's going to mess with your natural ability to produce serotonin and create a dependency on them. Niacin on the other hand, is completely natural and has been known to treat depression and anxiety. Also what you said about chemo is a horrible argument. People who get chemo usually end up with cancer again within a few years, and the only reason we use that form of treatment is because hospitals make so much money off of it. People who actually want to get cured go to Mexico, because it is illegal to get actual treatment in the U.S. due to the fact that we can't make any money off of it. That is why we don't sell vitamin B-17 in the U.S., because you can't patent a vitamin. As Gaijin said, the basic science behind the pills is simple enough, but it is only a temporary fix and creates a dependence on the drug. I'm glad they help you Harvey, but it would be extremely beneficial to see a nutritionist about this and try to take a less artificial approach, and maybe see a counselor (which you might already be doing, as I am) to figure out why you're depressed.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-09-13-prozac_x.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/may/13/socialcare.medicineandhealth

Also, finaleclipse I will reply to your post when I get a chance, but I have to go to work very shortly.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:02:29 pm by cloudstrifex »

Offline Crimzen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Sending You Positive Energy!
    • Sleeping Awake
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2011, 07:05:08 am »
RAWR government RAWR meds RAWR rage!! *laughs continues to new thread*

Offline gaijin

  • Hiding behind the couch
  • Community Supporter
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • "You sound like the Morning Star"
    • Motljus
Re: Go back to bed, your government is in control
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2011, 01:32:19 pm »
Not bothered if this gets me banned (which, knowing your angst-ridden trigger finger, it probably will), but here's a request; if you have nothing productive to say could you just...shut up? Thanks, gajgjgijgijgin.

It'd be cool if you could follow your own advice, seeing as that would silence you permanently. ;P

And yeah, stop being a dick, or get thrown out, etc.etc. You know the drill.
Oi, is this when I get a huge sig-image, start whining about "moar sid" and make nonsensical arguments to no good?