Author Topic: The FPS - The MMO - Sports  (Read 7203 times)

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Offline SomethingApt

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 03:42:56 am »
I agree with you, there's a lot of shit on the market. But i think you're rather hastily jumping to the conclusion that "they don't make em like they used to". It's all too easy to look at the past with rose tinted glasses, but as far as i remember the market has always been flooded with shitty rush jobs made purely to cash in.

Looking at the top sales chart at the moment, there's quite a healthy mix...

1. Fable II - Xbox 360 – 790K
2. Wii Fit w/ balance board - Wii – 487K
3. Fallout 3 - Xbox 360 – 375K
4. Mario Kart w/ wheel - Wii – 290K
5. Wii Play w/ remote - Wii – 282K
6. Saints Row 2 - Xbox 360 – 270K
7. SOCOM: U.S. Navy Seals Confrontation - PS3 – 231K
8. LittleBigPlanet - PS3 – 215K
9. NBA 2K9 - Xbox 360 – 202K
10. Dead Space - Xbox 360 – 193K

Fable 2? Wii Fit? Mario Kart? LittleBigPlanet? That doesn't look like a stale market to me.

Sirix, i looked into your stat that 4% of games make a profit. Technically true, but a bit misleading. 4% of games that start production make a profit, but of games that actually make it to market, 20% turn profit. Still a small number, i guess.

EDIT: Out of interest i just looked over some software sales charts dating up to 10 years ago, and there's a fairly similar spread of sequels and yearly sports updates to what there is today.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 03:50:43 am by SomethingApt »

Offline Sirix

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2008, 03:22:53 pm »
I agree with you, there's a lot of shit on the market. But i think you're rather hastily jumping to the conclusion that "they don't make em like they used to". It's all too easy to look at the past with rose tinted glasses, but as far as i remember the market has always been flooded with shitty rush jobs made purely to cash in.

Looking at the top sales chart at the moment, there's quite a healthy mix...

1. Fable II - Xbox 360 – 790K
2. Wii Fit w/ balance board - Wii – 487K
3. Fallout 3 - Xbox 360 – 375K
4. Mario Kart w/ wheel - Wii – 290K
5. Wii Play w/ remote - Wii – 282K
6. Saints Row 2 - Xbox 360 – 270K
7. SOCOM: U.S. Navy Seals Confrontation - PS3 – 231K
8. LittleBigPlanet - PS3 – 215K
9. NBA 2K9 - Xbox 360 – 202K
10. Dead Space - Xbox 360 – 193K

Fable 2? Wii Fit? Mario Kart? LittleBigPlanet? That doesn't look like a stale market to me.

Sirix, i looked into your stat that 4% of games make a profit. Technically true, but a bit misleading. 4% of games that start production make a profit, but of games that actually make it to market, 20% turn profit. Still a small number, i guess.

EDIT: Out of interest i just looked over some software sales charts dating up to 10 years ago, and there's a fairly similar spread of sequels and yearly sports updates to what there is today.

Yeah, I was quoting a Kotaku article on that 4% stat and I JUST read the correction that put it to 20%.

And this "FPS and Sports" curve I'm talking about HAS been happening for almost 10 years.

the era of 3D started it.  Oh Goldeneye.

Thanks for the research SG!

That puts a bit of hope into the situation, but a bulk of those sales for Wii games comes straight out of the casual market.

As far as the "gamers" market, I still believe that FPS dominates (more than sports and MMO, but they are there as well)

The people who PLAY games as have them as a lifestyle is what I'm talking about, specifically.  The average gamer today is no longer one of platforming and puzzle solving, it's one of shooting, driving, scoring goals and the Wednesday night WoW raid.

Offline harvey danger

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2008, 07:42:03 pm »
Well, there are a lot of avid gamers that still jump for things like Mario and Zelda. The problem is that games like those don't come along very often.

I know for a fact that people are getting back into Pokemon, too. :P
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline SpeedD

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 02:56:13 am »
Pokemon MMO.
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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 03:02:21 am »
Pokemon game maker.

Offline megadokyo

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 12:17:03 pm »
Pokemon Fit.

Offline yas‮

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 01:47:51 pm »
Pokemon Pokemon.

It's kinda sad that there are less and less innovative games. You get one original game, then 983249 mildly improved clones of it. I'd like to see more arcade style games, without some wtf-like class b stories, just pure fun oriented games. RPGs were fun a while ago, now they all use the "go there, go there, kill this, talk to that dude, oops, princess is another castle; repeat" scheme. Plus your best AI friend is usually a villain.

Offline Sirix

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 10:28:38 pm »
Pokemon Pokemon.

It's kinda sad that there are less and less innovative games. You get one original game, then 983249 mildly improved clones of it. I'd like to see more arcade style games, without some wtf-like class b stories, just pure fun oriented games. RPGs were fun a while ago, now they all use the "go there, go there, kill this, talk to that dude, oops, princess is another castle; repeat" scheme. Plus your best AI friend is usually a villain.

One problem with innovation is that often companies are punished for it rather than rewarded.

It's dangerous to spend so much money on a "new" way to play a game... if you don't perfect it on your first try critics will rip you APART and your game won't sell well.

amazing article about critics and the gaming culture here: http://kotaku.com/5097355/i-gamer  , by Leigh Alexander.  Goddess of Gaming Journalism.

Offline Torp v2.0

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2008, 12:39:15 am »
Consoles are where original game play is going to happen.

I am not at all sure you're right about that. Original game play (as opposed to gimmicky controls) will happen where you have developers who are willing to take a chance and make a new and original game. It has little to do with platform.

Also, that top sellers list has a lack of Mirror's Edge. Mirror's Edge needs to sell more.
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Offline Sirix

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2008, 01:09:03 am »
Consoles are where original game play is going to happen.

I am not at all sure you're right about that. Original game play (as opposed to gimmicky controls) will happen where you have developers who are willing to take a chance and make a new and original game. It has little to do with platform.

Also, that top sellers list has a lack of Mirror's Edge. Mirror's Edge needs to sell more.

I take it you are targeting the Wii with the "gimmicky controls" remark?

I can't say I can disagree... but let's at least agree that it is not the Wii's fault.
Any of the major 1st titles released have EXCELLENT Wii Controls that do nothing but add to the experience (Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart).

It's the inability of 3rd party developers to use their imagination that ends up with waggle nightmares and "gimmicky" controls.

and yeah Torp, I agree.  It's definitely not just about which platform it's on that will determine original gameplay.

It's just what I SEE when it comes to the world of PC gaming.
lots of FPS, Sims and MMOs.
nothing -terribly- ground breaking.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 01:10:53 am by Sirix »

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2008, 01:53:23 am »
One problem with innovation is that often companies are punished for it rather than rewarded.

Such as when sirix needlessly bashed the new banjo games direction before he even played it amirite lolololo?

Offline Sirix

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2008, 02:48:52 am »
One problem with innovation is that often companies are punished for it rather than rewarded.

Such as when sirix needlessly bashed the new banjo games direction before he even played it amirite lolololo?

perfect example!

I will not defend myself :)

Offline Torp v2.0

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2008, 11:56:07 pm »
I was actually referring both to the Wii and the PS3, with its in-control motion sensor thingy.

I am not against these things, but just having them won't innovate by itself. It needs to be used correctly, and even then, it's often not as if it's really innovation in gameplay. Game X, despite innovative controls, may still be just the same old beat-em-up. The really important innovations, for most kinds of games (except maybe party games, which can gain a lot from gimmicky controls (see Guitar Hero, Singstar, Rock Band, etc, etc)), are not dependent upon the control set. A good game really depends on the controls working well, but whether this is achieved through mouse and keyboard, keypad, thingys with motion sensors in them or a spearmint-tasting plastic gum that reacts to how fast you chew it is mostly arbitrary (again, this does not hold true for all games. Guitar Hero is dependent upon its guitars - it's plain boring to play it with regular controllers. And Dance Dance Revolution, if you like that, really needs its dance mat unless you're some freaky weirdo who like pushing buttons to a certain rythm*).

*ok, so really abstracted, you could argue that that is what most musicians do, but fuck it, you get the point.
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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2008, 12:42:32 am »
I think one thing to notice is that we're talking about the European/US gaming scene. Japan only sends the games to us that will make money, primarily because they have a market all to themselves in their country. I mean, if you go there, games like GTA and Call of Duty don't exist because, to be frank, they think our games are shit.
This is why the 360 remains the least popular over there.

Solution? Move to japan.


Take note that the list SA posted at the top of the page. Only a few japanese-made games on the list.
I think we can safely say, for now, that hardcore console games are dying.

Offline SomethingApt

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Re: The FPS - The MMO - Sports
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 06:24:48 am »
I mean, if you go there, games like GTA and Call of Duty don't exist because, to be frank, they think our games are shit.

I know the point you're making, but just to be pedantic i'd like to point out that in the month of November, according to vgcharts, GTA4 is the 15th best selling game in Japan. Soooooo... There is SOME room for our games over there, but yeah the market is very different.