Author Topic: Gene Simmons is a whore.  (Read 8585 times)

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Offline Torp v2.0

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2007, 08:14:20 pm »
It's a lot how I used to roll, too. The last couple of years I've had much less liquidity, and haven't bought many CDs (technically, I live under what is considered the poverty treshold in Norway. That's a student's life, I suppose). During my year in the army, when I had relatively good amounts of money I could freely spend when there was something to spend it on (I only got 110kr/day, but had no living costs) I bought a lot of CDs, however.

And I think a good amount of us who do pirate music (not that I've pirated much music the last couple of years, actually - the only thing I regularly pirate at the time is TV series, out of practicality and the fact that it's the only way to get the series I want to watch) do it mostly because of the high cost of actually buying music. I really can't afford buying CDs, with my current budget. Nor movies, for that matter.
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Offline PrescriptiveBarony

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2007, 09:22:44 pm »
i can't wait till these people start going after the kids who buy used cds...


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Offline harvey danger

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2007, 09:31:33 am »

ok, yes... opening a store where you say "come in and pay what you want!" doesn't make sense...
but it DOES when your product is available in limitless supply to no extra charge for you (IE: Data).


Well, to create that data (in this case perhaps mp3 format of the songs) cost money to them. They record their stuff in expensive studios. Not to mention the whole mixing process, hiring engineer etc.

Again, bands like NIN and radiohead are not financially in trouble nowadays, because they've been around since the time people buy physical CDs and they could make money off of it. We're talking about new broke ass musicians.

Lots of indie artists now record at home. The money for them IS in touring; they tour, get their name out, play well, and people will buy their stuff. I honestly think this is a pretty valid form of success, seeing as the band actually has to prove themselves to the mass population before getting to to the top. This is opposed to say, a record company grabbing five random guys that look good and have reasonably good voices that have never met before , and forcing them into a group, because they're just like the last thing that came out (or repeat model as necessary for most pop music nowadays).  I think the newer system is better because the real music listening population gets to determine what is published (and that includes even pop music; at least this way, it's real musicians (and rappers, can't forget the indie hip-hop scene) getting made).
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline Kobi

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2007, 01:05:25 pm »
Very accurate Harvey Danger. In short the control is at the listeners and in a decade who knows.

Offline SomethingApt

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2007, 02:22:00 pm »
I download music, and if i really like an album i will always buy it. I have bought entire discographies  of bands after first downloading their albums, so to say that piracy is hurting them is ridiculous, if i hadn't heard them after downloading, they wouldn't have made ANY money from me. The only thing piracy hurts is shoddy bands releasing bad albums, who rely on people to buy them without having first heard the music.

Offline Sirix

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2007, 05:40:54 pm »

ok, yes... opening a store where you say "come in and pay what you want!" doesn't make sense...
but it DOES when your product is available in limitless supply to no extra charge for you (IE: Data).


Well, to create that data (in this case perhaps mp3 format of the songs) cost money to them. They record their stuff in expensive studios. Not to mention the whole mixing process, hiring engineer etc.

Again, bands like NIN and radiohead are not financially in trouble nowadays, because they've been around since the time people buy physical CDs and they could make money off of it. We're talking about new broke ass musicians.

Lots of indie artists now record at home. The money for them IS in touring; they tour, get their name out, play well, and people will buy their stuff. I honestly think this is a pretty valid form of success, seeing as the band actually has to prove themselves to the mass population before getting to to the top. This is opposed to say, a record company grabbing five random guys that look good and have reasonably good voices that have never met before , and forcing them into a group, because they're just like the last thing that came out (or repeat model as necessary for most pop music nowadays).  I think the newer system is better because the real music listening population gets to determine what is published (and that includes even pop music; at least this way, it's real musicians (and rappers, can't forget the indie hip-hop scene) getting made).

I download music, and if i really like an album i will always buy it. I have bought entire discographies  of bands after first downloading their albums, so to say that piracy is hurting them is ridiculous, if i hadn't heard them after downloading, they wouldn't have made ANY money from me. The only thing piracy hurts is shoddy bands releasing bad albums, who rely on people to buy them without having first heard the music.

win 1 and win 2.

I'd like to see some actual data showing the income of bands today as opposed to 20 years ago.
I'D LIKE TO SEE IT REALLY BAD!

It's entirely possible that people are complaining about this without actually seeing any solid facts.  Just like how people blame video games for violence when as of the Playstation era violence in youths has dropped something like 10-15%

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2007, 06:30:45 pm »
I download music, and if i really like an album i will always buy it. I have bought entire discographies  of bands after first downloading their albums, so to say that piracy is hurting them is ridiculous

because you do represent everyone who downloads music, yes?

Offline Sirix

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2007, 08:21:27 pm »
I download music, and if i really like an album i will always buy it. I have bought entire discographies  of bands after first downloading their albums, so to say that piracy is hurting them is ridiculous

because you do represent everyone who downloads music, yes?

I also do the same thing.
I've also heard countless other people say they do this.

this is an entirely common practice.

so yes, i'd say what he said there does represent a fair chunk of people who download music.

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2007, 08:32:06 pm »
so yes, i'd say what he said there does represent a fair chunk of people who download music.

perhaps a chunk, but not all. therefore, its pretty void unless you provide some hard hitting evidence that shows your point. i know plenty of people that download, but dont buy the album after.

Offline harvey danger

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2007, 08:56:18 pm »
so yes, i'd say what he said there does represent a fair chunk of people who download music.

perhaps a chunk, but not all. therefore, its pretty void unless you provide some hard hitting evidence that shows your point. i know plenty of people that download, but dont buy the album after.

That doesn't mean that the artists won't make money. I equate it to being able to find paintings on Google. Most people pay at the museum to go see art, but you can just as easily just go on Google and find most of the things you'd see there. By going to the band's shows and buying their CDs and supporting them, the fans determine who gets famous, and the band earns their keep.
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline PrescriptiveBarony

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2007, 10:19:58 pm »
music is art. art has inevitably become a commercial interest, just like sex, sports, politics, philosophy, and information, but it, like all of these, has no inherent reason to be. i don't think any band or artist can go out and expect to make a living; that's just setting oneself up for failure. As far as i'm concerned, paying a band for the aural satisfaction of hearing their music is a donation. it's a very customary donation, like giving money to a church or something, but they have no right to demand payment because i heard something in a certain context (as opposed to a different context, like on the radio, someone else's ipod, or leaking out from a club they're playing). The record label honestly has a little bit more of a right to demand money, since all they do is produce and market the physical goods that go along with the band, and if someone wants the cd and not just the music, then there's no getting around being obliged to pay for it if they charge for it. now, regardless of the legitimacy of their asking for money, i have no respect for the business, which asks that i pay ~15 dollars for 5 cents of cd, maybe a dollar of packaging and printing, and maybe another dollar of transportation and warehousing.

i'm not a terribly principled person. nonetheless, i haven't purchased a new cd from a store in several years. all my purchases of physical media are either direct from a band, used from a store, or, in rare cases, from online providers if they're foreign bands (which ends up being rather cheaper than if the same cd had been imported to a store here). Once I have the cd, I rip it, look through the liner notes maybe, and then put it away forever unless someone else borrows it. What i'm getting at is that, for me at least, the music and the cd are becoming completely distinct entities. I can get the music whenever I want, rather cheaply (mp3sugar.com is a good and probably legal vendor; 15-18 cents instead of 99 at itunes per track); so why pay a premium to get it and the cd at the same time, if i can get the cd later for a couple bucks max?

If people want to continue selling cds (and I think they do), they've gotta start thinking of it in perspective. If you're a small band with not much internet presence, then cool, sell your cds at your shows for 10 bucks, and if you're good people will buy them. if you're a huge band with tons of radio play and music videos and your songs are all available for download, legal or otherwise, it's time to start thinking of the physical CD as a bonus, and pricing it as such. i might be willing to pay a quarter per song, and 4 or 5 dollars for the bonus of getting a cd as well. so a 12 song album= 3+5=8 dollars + a couple dollars shipping=10 bucks.  bingo, now you're mildly within my spending range. Soon enough cds themselves will become rarities, bands will release an album with only 1000 actual cds available etc., and then we as a world community can move on with our petty meaningless lives while the preponderance of the internet and infinite supply of music (in the form of data) actually results in more profits; record labels morph into cyberpromoters who aren't throwing away money (and harming the environment tremendously) by producing and distributing bits of plastic all over the world; and we will all link arms and sing kumbaya.


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Offline amj

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Re: Gene Simmons is a whore.
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2007, 02:02:23 am »
Nobody has the god given right to get big and make money from their music. If it's shit (and boy is alot of it shit) then tough luck, better find a new career. If it's good then cool, I'll fork over the cash. It's similar to buying clothes, or a car for instance. You go and have a look, try it on/take a test drive, you don't just pay your money and make do with whatever you get.

As well as this, there's all the money bands make from touring and merch etc.

And to add to the anecdotal evidence, i've downloaded whole discographies and then gone  on to buy 90% of that bands music. The other 10% I don't listen to so no loss there. Similarly I've downloaded a discography and then bought none of it. But I defiently won't listen to that either. And I've also noticed that when I had a job I did buy stuff including live dvd's etc etc but now I'm a student I can't really buy shit all!