Author Topic: Evolution and Bible  (Read 35478 times)

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Lysix

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Evolution and Bible
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2007, 11:13:33 pm »
However, Lysix(?) was. I was merely providing support in my own unique way. Namely, failing at being a prick.

I resent that!




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Offline harvey danger

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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2007, 12:01:37 am »
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The Bible. =P
saying teh bible denies evolution is bad theology

Indeed. The story of creation is meant as more of story than a factual account.

No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Not according to my God!  >:(

(That I don't worship..)


But yeh, this is where the different sects start to differ. The theology of the Catholic Church, at least, says it's not a factual account and that it's a story.

Hence "the story of creation".

If you want to go back far enough, I suppose. "Big bang" and whatnot. But in terms of lifeforms? The earth was covered with a pretty vast ocean, and if the conditions were right for one cell to form from the primordial ooze, it seems like it'd be enough to form multitudes of cells at the same time.

Well, probably both possibilities are... possible...

I think it depends under which conditions life formed, and why. And on how the rate of spread compares to the probability of emergence of life. I could imagine two different scenarios (or anything in between):

1. Life emerged because of a sudden change of global conditions (comet struck, sudden temperature change, etc.). Then it might originate on multiple spots at (approximately) the same time.

2. The emergence of life was a rather improbable event. Maybe conditions on earth even didn't change over millions of years, then suddenly something happened locally (small comet hit the ocean, at the same time being hit by lighting... whatever), and life emerged at that spot. Maybe it would take again millions of years for that special event to happen again, but until then life has already spread over the planet.

or something.

Well, then you get into scientific technicalities. How a comet(?) could cause life to form, etc.
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline Xhu

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Evolution and Bible
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2007, 12:09:23 am »
Quote
The Bible. =P
saying teh bible denies evolution is bad theology

Indeed. The story of creation is meant as more of story than a factual account.

No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Not according to my God!  >:(

(That I don't worship..)


But yeh, this is where the different sects start to differ. The theology of the Catholic Church, at least, says it's not a factual account and that it's a story.

Hence "the story of creation".

Only after it was blatantly ovbious to everyone that it didn't happen...
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Offline PrescriptiveBarony

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Evolution and Bible
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2007, 12:12:02 am »
No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Christians believe there were two gods, one of the land and one of the sea, and the land god defeated the sea one?

or do christians only trust the archaic translations of the holy book which gloss over some of the remnants of polytheism and other pre-YHWH ideas?


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Offline harvey danger

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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2007, 12:29:47 am »
Quote
The Bible. =P
saying teh bible denies evolution is bad theology

Indeed. The story of creation is meant as more of story than a factual account.

No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Not according to my God!  >:(

(That I don't worship..)


But yeh, this is where the different sects start to differ. The theology of the Catholic Church, at least, says it's not a factual account and that it's a story.

Hence "the story of creation".

Only after it was blatantly ovbious to everyone that it didn't happen...

I think we're still waiting for the rest of everyone.  :P

or do christians only trust the archaic translations of the holy book which gloss over some of the remnants of polytheism and other pre-YHWH ideas?

That one.

See: Zoroastrianism
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline Trias

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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2007, 12:35:19 am »
Well, then you get into scientific technicalities. How a comet(?) could cause life to form, etc.

well, anyway, disregarding (not knowing) the details, I don't see why one of those two scenarios should be more likely.

Offline Cerapter

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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2007, 12:39:01 am »
The comet doesn't cause, it just brings. Unless..
Just close your eyes and keep your mind wide open.

Offline Trias

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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2007, 12:44:59 am »
The comet doesn't cause, it just brings. Unless..

could be some chemical chain reaction or whatever. also, again the details were not really the point, the point was that it could have been some sudden global change that caused life (sudden with respect to the time-scale of lifeform spread), possibly leading to simultaneous evolution at multiple spots, or some local change/ event, in which case all life could descend from the same thing...

or something.

Offline harvey danger

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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2007, 01:35:50 am »
Well, then you get into scientific technicalities. How a comet(?) could cause life to form, etc.

well, anyway, disregarding (not knowing) the details, I don't see why one of those two scenarios should be more likely.


We need someone to look at a timeline and do some math for us.  :P See how big the population of organisms was, supposedly, at a certain point in time. We could probably go backwards from there.

Does anyone know the logarithm for the multiplication of bacteria underwater?
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline slippy0

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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2007, 02:37:30 am »
well thells tells us in algebra 2 its liek ln x!!!!!!1111!!


but seriously, I believe it would be exponential, not logarithmic growth, and that It most definitely would not follow e^x perfectly.
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Offline harvey danger

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2007, 03:59:15 am »
Time to consult a math book.

I still think it was logarithmic. At least, we did it in the same unit as logarithms. Along with annuity. :D
That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Offline cloudstrifex

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Evolution and Bible
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2007, 04:57:02 am »
Quote
The Bible. =P
saying teh bible denies evolution is bad theology

Indeed. The story of creation is meant as more of story than a factual account.

No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Not according to my God!  >:(

(That I don't worship..)


But yeh, this is where the different sects start to differ. The theology of the Catholic Church, at least, says it's not a factual account and that it's a story.

Hence "the story of creation".

I don't even consider Catholicism to be a sect of Christianity. In fact, I don't really think there can be different sects. I am a Christian. I believe what the Bible says and that is that. But with all the different branches today it's hard to even distinguish what is what. Catholics don't even believe in Jesus, they believe Mary is the savior, which I personally don't agree with at all. Anyway....

No it isn't. The bible is the holy book of Christianity and therefore is the factual account about how we came to be in this world, for Christians anyway.

Christians believe there were two gods, one of the land and one of the sea, and the land god defeated the sea one?

or do christians only trust the archaic translations of the holy book which gloss over some of the remnants of polytheism and other pre-YHWH ideas?

The New King James Bible is exactly how it was written way back when, with no alterations. So unless you read that version, you could be getting some wrong translations. And you might think "well how do you KNOW it's real?" Well I guess that's part of being a Christian and believing.

Offline L'homme magique

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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2007, 05:04:30 am »
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I don't even consider Catholicism to be a sect of Christianity.
a) they're called denominations
b) I know many catholics that would literally beat you within an inch of your life if you said that to them.
Quote
The New King James Bible is exactly how it was written way back when, with no alterations.
the KJV is a translation from hebrew HEYO
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Offline cloudstrifex

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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2007, 05:12:23 am »
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I don't even consider Catholicism to be a sect of Christianity.
a) they're called denominations
b) I know many catholics that would literally beat you within an inch of your life if you said that to them.
Quote
The New King James Bible is exactly how it was written way back when, with no alterations.
the KJV is a translation from hebrew HEYO

a)My bad Harvey called it a sect so I used that but whatever.
b)Good I'll be waiting with my posse.

Oops I was thinking more like between versions e.g. KJV-->NIV but the same principle still applies really. Seeing as the KJV is still the established Bible for Christianity you still just have to believe in it I guess.

Offline harvey danger

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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2007, 05:28:22 am »
Quote
I don't even consider Catholicism to be a sect of Christianity.
a) they're called denominations
b) I know many catholics that would literally beat you within an inch of your life if you said that to them.
Quote
The New King James Bible is exactly how it was written way back when, with no alterations.
the KJV is a translation from hebrew HEYO

a)My bad Harvey called it a sect so I used that but whatever.

He was talking about:

Catholics don't even believe in Jesus, they believe Mary is the savior, which I personally don't agree with at all. Anyway....

Which is absolutely, completely wrong and misinformed.



Quote
Oops I was thinking more like between versions e.g. KJV-->NIV but the same principle still applies really. Seeing as the KJV is still the established Bible for Christianity you still just have to believe in it I guess.

For -what- part of Christianity? I know for a fact that the KJV is not the established bible for every denomination of Christianity. And there ARE denominations, no matter what you believe. Doesn't mean everyone can't be a Christian, but there are some pretty huge discrepancies between the different parts. Example: that denomination of the Baptist church (I forget what it's called, there's only a few members, it's not even recognized by the normal Baptist church) that protests outside of soldier's funerals with signs saying "gay soliders go to hell," and the Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, and Lutheran churches which simply don't believe gays "go to hell". Or most Protestant denominations and the Catholic churches and the Universalist churches, which believe all humans will be saved from hell, as opposed to "those who don't believe/obey will burn forever." (I know it's more complicated than that, but I had to paraphrase.)


That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.