Author Topic: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)  (Read 25579 times)

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Offline Cerapter

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #105 on: September 05, 2006, 11:49:48 pm »
Some things never change, and some things do.

Crappy movie and silly quote, but it's true. People can either change or not change, and while some people can't at all, others definitely will. Some characteristics might never change, though, but that does not mean other characteristics can't.

Then you've got masks and images. One can build new images that are not oneself, and also drop them, revealing a more "true" self. If the behavior of this girl was an image she has thrown away, she might truly have changed. But if the new her is an image and the old her more true, then she's likely to turn back to her old ways. But even if she has changed, it's not easy telling which is which, not even for her.
Just close your eyes and keep your mind wide open.

Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2006, 01:52:50 am »
Unlike what Gravehill said, people can change. People can change a whole lot, for better or for worse. It's all about what they experience. I'm a different person today than I was five years ago. Obviously, there are similarities, but I am still not the person I was. There have been fundamental changes to my worldview, and there have been less groundshaking changes.
Now I know I should have sent that longer version instead of this where I cut the story short. First of all I was about to define what I mean when I refer to individual. I see individuals as "well". When you look at them, you only see the surface and see what kind of waves wind or dropping object creates there (how people react to certain things). You don't know how deep one is : is it 10 metres or 10 centimetres. When one does experience about that "well" you slowly learn more about how deep it is. Still you see only surface. Who is brave enough to dive into well? Who knows what kind of monsters lies there waiting for their victim? When your in love mutually each other grants other access to one's secret world, at least some part of it. You gradually learn to see deeper. All the pain and joys that unify you shows more light to abyss of your mate's well. In some point one's own well and other's well are unified and there is much same water running on them. But the heavy water in the bottom of the both well stays same.

This my view of human soul or existence is quite hard to describe so please be patient. I try my best effort and hopefully someone understands what I mean.

So, the well of human soul is on two layers : first there is that water we want (or let) others to see. It's very lightweight and constantly changing. Then there's heavy water, our inner self, secret creature oslt. It's very vulnerable and it tries to keep away from light (not to be seen). When one is in love that creature comes visible to partner and there is possibility that that our most genuine and real self gets rejected. It hurts like a hell. But when someone loves that creature with all it's mistakes and ugliness it feels good. Still even that loved one cannot see whole truth. There is always something secret from loved ones, even from person itself. For example, I'm always searching and exploring my well. There's nothing new there, not since teenage. Same water everywhere but still I keep finding things that I've never found out before. Still, when I think about it I can see them as a part of my life so long as I remember. It's just I've never thought of them, accepted them or found them. They've always been there, acting behind shadows.

Well my theory about people changing goes like this : yes, people can change on certain degree if you think only what you see as "well" or it's surface. But the creature inside, heavy water, the true self, cannot change. People can change their behaviour or their life but they cannot change themselves. Deep inside there's still that same motor running no matter how chromed the outside is. Sure, it might seem like a big change when you see that someone from outside. And some even feel that way when their reflecting themselves. I know, because I once did. How people interact with other people, how they move, speak and do things. What they say and how they lay. It's still all only surface. It's flesh that we see, not soul, and the soul stays same.

Like me, for example. Nowadays I'm much happier than I was on my teens. At same time I've felt such pains and sadness that I never thought were possible. People see that happiness because that's what's on the surface. I smile a lot, talk about positive things, laugh and most of time I'm in good moods. It's harmless, fun and bright side of me. Pain, sadness and sorrow lay little deeper. Only closest friends see them and understand them. They are always there but they are in control. Even deeper there's layer my loved one sees : it's almost 100% true me. There are only few things that she cannot see. On the other hand there were no words for me to decribe them to her even if I wanted to. I know those things do exist but they are too abstract to tell, beyond any human vocabulary. I think that she have felt or sensed something sometimes but like I said - they are things even I cannot understand wholly or see clearly enough.

All this "changing" is a matter of control and experience. People learn by experience. There are inner motives, things that keep us rolling and then there is urge to do as those motives command us to do. Then there is control over motives. Let's take LUST for example. Amount and direction of lust varies among people. So does control over it. Some people know how to control it, some do not even bother trying. Every motive can be controlled. It's not really question if people are weak or strong but it's about how strong is their motivation for control. And control is as strong as motivation of control. What one can achieve by doing as motive urges? What harm or greater good there were if one does not do it or do it? Is the amount of time and energy worth doing it? Let's take example.

There is a boy and an appletree. Appletree lies at neighbours side. There are delicious, red apples and boy LUST over apples. There are some problems thou. Neighbour is a strict man who consider taking an apple as stealing. And he has big dog too. What would boy do? Save money to buy apple? Try sneaking there daytime when dog is in but man is watching? Try sneaking nighttime when dog is out but man is sleeping? Try getting apple when they both are hunting ducks at  pond but when parents are watching? Is it easier to be without apple at all? When there were possibility that no one sees but all the apples from low are taken is it worth effort to climb on tree and take apple there? Is it better to wait if there's better opportunity? What if there is no better opportunity? If there were opportunity boy still feel it was wrong but does amount of lust go over his morals? Is it only morals that prevents him or is there some concrete fear behind that too?

If that dog has bitten boy he would not select time when dog is on watch because of fear.  He have learned that over experiment. Killing dog over apple is not very clever thing to do especially when he would be suspect number one. Has that dogbite changed boy? I bet he still lust over apple and dreams about it. He just don't do anything because he control his urge because of fear. Same goes with everything.

We might learn by experience and alter our behaviour or life but the inner person stays same. Same goes with ageing and hormones : boy will grow up and became man, girl becomes woman and so on, to the grave. There is some maturing and learning through life but eventually people's inner self changes very little. I do believe in lifelong learning. I do believe that people might become "better" - not because they have changed but because they have learned to control their actions better, more creatively and more responsible way.  In that way, people can change. One can't see how deep that change is. Still they are same ones there deep inside. Tiger is still tiger even when it's tamed.

I know it's not very clear presentation but it's best that I can do for now. I hope that someone understood that. In the matter of fact it's not far away from the ru's comment nor from Torp's comment.

*Sigh*

These things are complicated.
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Offline Caranfin

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2006, 08:36:13 am »
I think that I understood that and I believe that's the best description of the human soul I've ever seen. Tell me, how the hell don't you have more karma?

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2006, 08:41:32 am »
I gave one a few moments ago! :D

Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2006, 09:42:12 am »
I think that I understood that and I believe that's the best description of the human soul I've ever seen. Tell me, how the hell don't you have more karma?
Well thank you. It's nice but rare occasion when I try to write/speak about things and someone really understands what I'm trying to say. It's been like a curse to me since childhood. It's like I'm talking some alien-language or something. I've always been considered weird case. I'm happy thou that most of my friends (like my wife)  are alike and speak native alien too :D

I don't have more karma because...

YUhmm....

I think it has something to do with Costner sausages and/or gay-commandoes rescuing me? They bring bad karma, you know. Escaping Big mumppis' prison and all.
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Offline Caranfin

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2006, 10:51:02 am »
So... Costner sausages and/or gay commandoes have some sort of a bad karma field around them? Like... 2d100 bad karma points per rescue? Or was it the prison that had the negative effect?

More seriously, though. I don't see a problem with understanding that explanation... Unless, of course, I misunderstood it. :P

Less seriously but on topic: Yeah... Girls.

Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2006, 11:24:29 am »
So... Costner sausages and/or gay commandoes have some sort of a bad karma field around them? Like... 2d100 bad karma points per rescue? Or was it the prison that had the negative effect?
Negative karma effect of Costner sausage is based on it's horrible ugliness and it's bad acting.

Negative karma effect of gay-commandoes is based on their way of doing rescues. It's fun to be free but payback is bitch and costly. No, payback is not girl because girl is not same as bitch and gay-commandoes do not want girls. They would not be gay-commandoes if they did, I guess. Anyway, every time they need bitch they come and take one readily teached from the BITCHSCHOOL, otherwise known as the ûber-security prison of mumppis. After rescuing one becomes slave of gay-commandoes for certain period of time. It's called military training. You can actually graduate as gay-commando there if you do full service. How long time you spend ther , it all depends how good bitch one is. I was really good bitch, he could not stand me longer than one week. Tihihihihiiiiii... I was so naughty and it brought me bad karma big time...

Prison has bad karma effect too. Bubba makes there bad things that bring bad karma if you don't pay him. And you will pay in one way or another.

You can't escape bad karma.
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Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2006, 11:26:27 am »
I guess that I should try to sleep more. Stupid posts do stupid karma and I have plenty of them unlike sleep.

Damn.

EDIT : AAahhhh... I did take 3 hours daynap and it really did the trick - I'm back to track. Recommended.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 03:15:12 pm by Gravehill »
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Offline Jack Lupino

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2006, 11:49:43 pm »
Ugh im tired as well..


But unlike some people, i don't talk the whole day about hard gay and karma.

Offline Cerapter

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2006, 11:56:38 pm »
I share you curse and gift, Gravehill — given that you're talking about the way you explain things and not grammar — but I will not hesitate to say you're far better than me at it. Also, I don't always bother using it, it gets monotonous showing just one of my sides wherever I register. While some would regard me a wise truthsayer at other boards, here I am far more content with decorating the whole place with pikaboobs, which also saves me a truckload of time I'd otherwise spend making lengthy entries.

My version of your metaphor was once the difference between a nucleus and cytoplasm, but now I think a seamless transition like the water in a well is a better fitting model in many cases. I, too, have referred to the inner core as a creature, but I'd assumed that that was just me and my borderline furryness.

But there's one thing I, for one, dare not answer; where did the creature come from and when was it made? Neglecting any reincarnation theories, the real question is when the surface of this core fastened, if it did at all? Is the core purely genetic, and if not, how much is it affected by the outside world, and for how long? Many will agree, after having lived for some decades, that one does not simply change one's own core. Some might've tried and failed. But what about those years when you don't think about cores and changing them? We should all have experienced how the teenage years shapes and changes the mind. I, at least, knew nothing about my core before this. Might it be possible, then, that the outcome of the core all depends on what you settle down with as the surface fastens in the late teenage years, or would the core be the same whatever you did in those years? If the former, then someone could be able to change themselves drastically, if they just do it when they're young enough.

In other words, might you perhaps be able to change your core if you do it while you're filling your own well? If we ever do fill our own well. How much water are we born with, and how soluble is it with additional water? Does it differ from person to person? I dare guess a yes on the last question.
Just close your eyes and keep your mind wide open.

Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2006, 12:40:48 am »
But unlike some people, i don't talk the whole day about hard gay and karma.
You're a wise man and path you have chosen will bring you massive amount of good karma and keep you away from harm's (that commando had name, Luke Harm...) way.
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Offline Jack Lupino

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2006, 12:57:58 am »
But unlike some people, i don't talk the whole day about hard gay and karma.
You're a wise man and path you have chosen will bring you massive amount of good karma and keep you away from harm's (that commando had name, Luke Harm...) way.


...


Did you just smite me ?

Offline Kurt_

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #117 on: September 07, 2006, 01:07:43 am »
''We can still be friends!''

Bullshit.

Bulllllshit.

Offline Torp v2.0

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #118 on: September 07, 2006, 01:30:52 am »
Is it Kurt?

It is Kurt?

It is KURT!

Sorry, just had to. You're welcome to stay, if you behave less spammy than the worst of us. Also, I do agree. Friendship when one side is still in love with the person is a really bad idea.
...why Torp was picked over you... HE'S JUST BETTER THAN YOU IN EVERY RESPECT. -SomethingGood
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Offline Gravehill

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Re: Girls are bitches (apart from ming)
« Reply #119 on: September 07, 2006, 01:52:42 am »
I, too, have referred to the inner core as a creature, but I'd assumed that that was just me and my borderline furryness.

But there's one thing I, for one, dare not answer; where did the creature come from and when was it made? Neglecting any reincarnation theories, the real question is when the surface of this core fastened, if it did at all? Is the core purely genetic, and if not, how much is it affected by the outside world, and for how long? Many will agree, after having lived for some decades, that one does not simply change one's own core. Some might've tried and failed. But what about those years when you don't think about cores and changing them? We should all have experienced how the teenage years shapes and changes the mind. I, at least, knew nothing about my core before this. Might it be possible, then, that the outcome of the core all depends on what you settle down with as the surface fastens in the late teenage years, or would the core be the same whatever you did in those years? If the former, then someone could be able to change themselves drastically, if they just do it when they're young enough.

In other words, might you perhaps be able to change your core if you do it while you're filling your own well? If we ever do fill our own well. How much water are we born with, and how soluble is it with additional water? Does it differ from person to person? I dare guess a yes on the last question.

I think creature is right word in english for that. Right from the start there are some "seeds" that can be seen after birth. Personal customs, temperament, activity, interests and so on. Sure, all babies have certain similarities as well as we adults do. But still they are individuals even if they are helpless and incapable of doing much. There are so much more than mere reflexes and instincts even in newly born baby (providing one has rested after birth which is quite tiring operation for those little fellows). It's amazing. I've read dozens of theories about child's psychological and physiological growth and still they lack reasonable explanation why does newly borns differ. And funny thing is, that certain character stays pretty much there through all the life. Reactions and counterreactions may change the way it acts or seems out but still it's there. It's beautifull, really. I mean there are lots of positive and negative "seeds" or motives in us all and I think that experience and learning will alter what parts of those characters come nearer the surface. And it's really fascinating how those positive and negative seeds all are fighting of their opportunity to get nearer surface, to dominate. It's like war was raging inside one.

I think that puberty when hormones start to kick in is that part of life when that war is raging most violently. The lighter water on well is moving violently, like storm. It's the time when those seeds are ordered so it makes that surface water stay relatively calm. It's kind of state of harmony (or lack of that) that one finds. Still all the negative and positive seeds are there, acting but not showing. But their way of interactions goes so that it's possible to live on : costant war between seeds would be very disastrous to individual and eventually one would not get anything done. One could not know what one wants. When those seeds are strengthened or supported by other people or experiences there is possibility to change one's motivation towards one's motives. When balance is found here one does know what path to follow and how to follow it. Of course choosing golden path of middleway is easiest one : there is not so much inner struggle. If one decide to follow certain principles that are closer negative or positive seeds struggle gets harder. I suppose one can learn to put other seeds more on the background but it's not easy in the start. There will likely be "temptations" or wars even later, in relative harmony as well.

I think that these wells of souls are connected with some network of basewater. Where is original spring where the flow comes? How those wells alter? I think that basewater is more than mere genetic familytree. It's sum of all sums, all counted together. I think it as legacy of love. Sure, there are some genetics too but there's lots of more too. Sure is that some wells are fuller than others, why? Some have much heavy water and little light water, others are opposite. And then there are those who have plenty or little both. I think that as child is quite open to anything in child we see that creature most clearly. That's why parents often knows they child best (if they have kept their eye open, I mean). After time, especially in teens one must protect that harmony inside well. That means that one must filter the wind, objects and rain that comes in. That's what light water is for. It's all because of harmony. Without core, light water, filter it would be all chaos. Like a child that runs towards anything one sees. That's why we are blind and deaf sometimes. It protects us and helps us to motivate and consentrate. Light water is surface - the behaviour and life that others see. Truly genuine and open adult is like child. There's no much light water or then it's very clear to see through. First alternative is quite bad for individual 'cause it often leads one to be abused by others. Second alternative is not that bad 'cause water still protects one : others can see creature but it's still protected by thick layer of light water.

Well... I think that's enough water for this day.
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