Author Topic: United Europe  (Read 6903 times)

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Offline Gravehill

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2006, 01:06:19 pm »
...you  can have (I mean like, one can have, not you personally) all the hard feelings you want against the Nazis or to some extend (they are not necessarily the same) the WWII Germans.
I'm very gratefull to WW2 germans. Well, I don't like things that nazis did but fact is that if there were no germany fighting with russians in WW2 by our side we would have lost big time. We would have lost our freedom and end up as another warsaw pact country among others. So even when they did bad things they did help one little nation up in the north to maintain their independence. They did burn most of the Lappland when Finland was forced to fight against them after surrendering to Russia. Too bad there was some too enthusiastic military observers there, it all could have ended peacufully without them. Still there were only few casualties there. One can always build new house but one cannot resurrect dead ones. And I still think that some burned houses is still cheap price for what they did by our side there. So I'm still quite thankfull for them.

Bad things happen every time any country goes war. In WW2 Finland had concentration camps as well americans and russians too. They were not alike their german counterparts but still people died there in massive amounts. Warmongers and militaristic idiots end up always killing people, even their own. Civilian, soldier, own citizen - it does not matter for these people. This tendency goes on like this even today.

Anyways as wrong as it was that nazis did I think there's no nation that's pure enough to throw the first rock. The reign of nazies was terminated, why to hate germans anymore? I understand german folk who did live under tyranny of nazies well. It's difficult to do anything when anyone who criticize ends up shot or in the camps. Not everyone can be brave enough to fight against government, especially when dictator has killed every possible leader for resistance. And they paid terrible price when russians conquerred Berlin. It was really bad time for all the Europe and our civilians. We all suffered there, more or less.

About that United Europe thing. It's not only that Sun magazine that's telling that story every now and then. There's enough signs to be seen for keen eye how we are little by little guided to become under one European government. First we had same currency, directives that tell what kind of laws there has to be and then we have our common constitutional law. It's a matter of time. Anyhow it's not Germany who is doing this. It's much bigger game here and everytime some nation points finger to another NATIONS direction it means we are closer to European government. Because it's not the nations that are playing this game but much bigger coalition that works from the shadows. It's group of politicians and parties whose main characteristic is that they have close ties with certain media industries. Those ties are not always easily seen but they still exist. And those politicians and parties are  working on every nation and every government. It might take anything from couple of years to even hundred years but eventually they will  succeed. Europe is going towards police state situation (where USA is already) and I don't know any way to prevent it. I will vote for certain small parties and their politicians that I know for sure being against this but I don't know if it's any good. But I hope so...
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Offline Trias

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2006, 03:19:46 pm »
Forgive and Forget i say

 :)

I'm probably getting annoying here, but what you said is *exactly* not my point.

First, no, don't forget. A good lesson you learn from the Nazi time is that terrible shit can happen in (more or less) civilized countries, and even worse, it can happen in YOUR country (well, from a German view point). To remember what happened at that time can help prevent that it happens again, if only for a limited period of time.

Second, there is no point in forgiving the Germans, unless you mean the people that lived at that time (and are mostly dead by now). The people that live here nowadays did nothing wrong (I mean regarding WWII of course), so why is forgiving a topic at all?

From my experince "stupid" British people still think in WWII terms, as if we (Germany and the UK) were enemies somehow. "Nice" british people have that "fogive and forget, let's be friends now" attitude, which is of course ok regarding the friends part, but IMO they still fail to recognize that the Germans from today are simply different persons. They can be assholes in their own right, but they are simply not the same beings. You simply don't have to forget about WWII to be friends with them! Because they are not the ones who bombed your cities and killed six million jews.

I hope I got my point across.

Also, the Sun article is a wonderful example for that racism/nationalism/whatever, like it was described in that monkey sphere article I onced linked. Even if some people planed to "wipe england from the map" (and not merely naming of ocean regions), is it the German government? A German party? The German chancellor? No, it's "the Germans"  ::)

About the EU government: As always, I'm for differentiating. I'm not saying it's the right time for a European government, nor that the current manifestation is a good one. However, what I do not understand are across-the-board statements, general truths like "EU government = bad", or "EU government = police state", no matter what. For me it's just a natural development. I mean, are you against a Finnish government? Why not split up everything into small regions? What about splitting the UK into Wales, Scotland, England etc.? Why not make every single village it's own country?

(the following argument only holds if you're not an anarchist, of course). Governments are created because it is good to have some rules and organization of people that live together. In the past, countries became larger and larger because the range of interaction between people became larger and larger. Nowadays we live in an age of globalization. If economy, culture and crime become global, and you're not against governmental organization in general, what is fundamentally wrong about government itself becoming global?


Offline Ant

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2006, 03:38:18 pm »
I like circles :)
But if one day we meet together while I'm drunk, I promise you to draw a big group sex picture including a lot of forumites. :D

Ich bin ein Berliner, Frankfurter, Hamburger und Bonner

Offline Trias

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2006, 04:06:19 pm »
hey, I need to vent once in a while.

Circles are ok.

Offline Ant

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2006, 06:51:15 pm »
hey, I need to vent once in a while.

Circles are ok.
Circle rox, venting out is never a bad thing, neither is having a heated discussion, i see it as getting to know someone better. People always act fake until they have a bit of anger inside them and say what they really think, i now know you a bit better and also like you a it better too because i don't think we ever really properly talked before this.
But if one day we meet together while I'm drunk, I promise you to draw a big group sex picture including a lot of forumites. :D

Ich bin ein Berliner, Frankfurter, Hamburger und Bonner

Offline Laser.T

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2006, 07:15:20 pm »
I like Europe.

about the article:

lol wtf where is this story coming from? No sources whatever. This map doesn't make any sense... ok I found another version:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/about17648.html

They take it seriously, too, but the regions in this map have apparently to do WITH SOME SORT OF OCEAN REGIONS, like fishing or tourism or whatever!

The standard of the British tabloids really seems to be WWII propaganda, that's so sad. In Germany, with have BILD, and that paper really annoys me, but the British counterparts are much worse from what I've heard.

And of course you believe that bullshit which is OBVIOUSLY out of context..  ::)

Sorry for my rant, but I've been confronted with British Germany hating all too often... also, I need more sleep, and less work.

Yes, this is just propaganda by tabloids to make its readership even more hateful of Europe and thus even more 'patriotic'.

I have taken a three year degree course in town and regional planning and that included European planning, and I have seen maps like this before. They are not new countries or states, but merely regions for administrative, funding and Europe-wide planning matters. By grouping like-regions together it is easier to sort out who gets European funding, how to create new transport links between places and how best for places to deal with each other on a Europe-wide scale.

This has evidentally gotten mixed up by tabloids with radicalist ideas of a United Europe to make a great "they're trying to fuck us over!" story.

So for the lecture, but this is bullcrap, don't believe it for a second. And stop reading the sodding Sun :p

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2006, 07:43:36 pm »
So for the lecture, but this is bullcrap, don't believe it for a second. And stop reading the sodding Sun :p

The Sun is 'read' by idiots who like football match reports and boobs in the same publication.

Offline Gravehill

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2006, 08:03:56 pm »
It seems like Sun is british version of Seiska (Seitsemän päivää trsl. Seven Days). Or maybe it's opposite. Seiska is  published once a week.  There's no football in Seiska thou, perhaps 'cause icehockey is more popular in Finland. But there is no icehockey either in Seiska. Nor decent boobs. Maybe Seiska is like Sun without football and boobs and once a week. But there's always Matti Nykänen, almost every week. Anyways, it's crap from cover to backpage. It's even too hard paper to make decent toalet paper.
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Offline WereVolvo

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Re: United Europe
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2006, 10:36:22 pm »
It seems like Sun is british version of Seiska (Seitsemän päivää trsl. Seven Days). Or maybe it's opposite. Seiska is  published once a week.  There's no football in Seiska thou, perhaps 'cause icehockey is more popular in Finland. But there is no icehockey either in Seiska. Nor decent boobs. Maybe Seiska is like Sun without football and boobs and once a week. But there's always Matti Nykänen, almost every week. Anyways, it's crap from cover to backpage. It's even too hard paper to make decent toalet paper.

Sounds like a norwegian scandal-hunting tabloid called "Se og Hør" (transl. Look and Listen)

Regular appearances include:
- "Svenno", Sven O. Høiby, father of Norwegian Crown Princess Mette Marit. The epitome of attention-whoring.

- Fedon Lindberg, once bigtime health food guru, now just bigtime loser

- Assorted other attention whores and former stars who somehow think that featuring in this rag will make them famous again.

Ah, the wonders of the scandal-seeking press!

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