Author Topic: More girl gamer rubbish...  (Read 22115 times)

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Offline Kasumi-Astra

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More girl gamer rubbish...
« on: June 18, 2006, 05:35:45 pm »
Your thoughts on this, please:
http://www.joystickjunkies.com/content/item.asp?item=41

Here's what I had to say at Joystiq.com:

(You can view these in context here: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/17/booth-babes-eat-your-heart-out/#comments)


"What will be cool is if we can get the girls in places like FHM and other big media that currently couldn't give a monkeys about gaming.What will be cool is if we can get the girls in places like FHM and other big media that currently couldn't give a monkeys about gaming."
FHM? Wow, they'll do a brilliant job of quashing the girl gamer stereotype. Forgive me if I sound a little underwhelmed at that prospect.

Why exactly should gamers have to be glamorous? As far as I remember, games are played for fun. People who play for status and prestige are routinely ridiculed by the gaming public because they are shallow people and their intentions are so transparent.

The games industry has evolved to a status comparable to Hollywood without the aid of a glamourous stereotype dictating the person you can become if you spent money buying games.

The best way to get the mass market into games is to get them to try. If the game is accessible enough and fun to play, they will buy more games.

Of course you're trying to market your clothing, but doing so by exploiting girl gamers as stereotypes and novelties is wrong, and cannot benefit the wider industry in any way.

Offline not12x

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 08:54:03 pm »
agreed.  but its life, eh?  this wont be successful.  games that overly objectify women traditionally dont fare well (GTA being the only exception that comes to mind).

this is one of the demands in the Gamer's Manifesto.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/manifesto.html

it's a bit old, but still solid.  here's the important part:
Quote
Chances of [the industry no longer objectifying women] happening...

Sadly, the proven money-making designers in the industry are the same ones that have given us Dead Or Alive Beach Volleyball and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (where the main character rampages though a city populated with violent men and sex-crazed street whores). As it turns out, they’re all men. The female demographic is seen as something that can be “targeted” by adding features to existing games, such as in-game clothes shopping, in-game makeup application and in-game cute animal pets. Game creators aren’t just casually missing the point, they’re showing a unified front of stupidity.

There is hope however. Like all industry, it is inevitable that females will eventually forge their place in the world of game design. The female designers will burst on the scene soon enough, heaving their giant bosoms of talent and creativity and brandishing their black thongs of diversity.

as a side note, i love how the defense of our objectification objectifies us.  way to go!

Offline Fallout

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 08:56:30 pm »


How does she play games with a mutated left hand?

lmfao.

Offline Valentine Revolution

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2006, 09:46:07 pm »
I feel the need to stand up for Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball a bit. I think its actually a pretty good game for girls; making freinds and buying outfits and gifts. DoA as a whole has a big appeal to the female market. I've met girls who aren;t really big on games but love Doa because its fairly easy to play plus the like unlocking all the extra costumes and stuff.

Offline not12x

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2006, 09:51:40 pm »
right.  becuase allllll we want to do is buy costumes and stuff.

seriously, why cant there just be NORMAL girls in games, and have them have leading roles?  why do they need to be prostitutes and/or supermodels?

Offline Kasumi-Astra

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2006, 09:55:55 pm »
I quite like Dead or Alive. Bouncing breasts and skant costumes aside, the women are portrayed with strength and purpose. They're not pictured in overly-suggestive poses. They're not exploited as much as Lara Croft or women in games such as BMX XXX.

Dead or Alive offers female characters that you don't have to feel cynical about playing.

Offline Valentine Revolution

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2006, 10:06:33 pm »
right.  becuase allllll we want to do is buy costumes and stuff.

seriously, why cant there just be NORMAL girls in games, and have them have leading roles?  why do they need to be prostitutes and/or supermodels?

All I meant was, for all people tout DoA as being a male game, it has some very female elements to it.

As for female leads, Fatal Frame/ Project Zero? Beyond Good and Evil? Few and far between perhaps; but still there.

Offline Kasumi-Astra

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2006, 10:15:58 pm »
Final Fantasy VI's main story centers around Terra. It's more of a compilation of different character's stories, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Terra a female lead.

Before Starcraft Ghost was canned, it had a female lead.

Then you have to consider the legions of guy gamers that play female characters predominantly in MMOs like WoW or Everquest. There's clearly a large portion of people, even a large fraction of men who have an interest in playing as a woman.

Offline not12x

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2006, 10:29:19 pm »
yeah...

it just seems like for every Terra, theres 40 Rikku's, for every good one, theres a ton of bads.

and your right on the MMO part.  except for those men who play females because they like staring at their avatars.

Offline Outboundlight

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2006, 11:35:05 pm »
right.  becuase allllll we want to do is buy costumes and stuff.

seriously, why cant there just be NORMAL girls in games, and have them have leading roles?  why do they need to be prostitutes and/or supermodels?

All I meant was, for all people tout DoA as being a male game, it has some very female elements to it.

As for female leads, Fatal Frame/ Project Zero? Beyond Good and Evil? Few and far between perhaps; but still there.

Eternal Darkness also, to an extent.

Offline Einkoro

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2006, 11:59:55 pm »
right.  becuase allllll we want to do is buy costumes and stuff.

seriously, why cant there just be NORMAL girls in games, and have them have leading roles?  why do they need to be prostitutes and/or supermodels?

All I meant was, for all people tout DoA as being a male game, it has some very female elements to it.

As for female leads, Fatal Frame/ Project Zero? Beyond Good and Evil? Few and far between perhaps; but still there.

Eternal Darkness also, to an extent.

The Longest Journey, Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, Perfect Dark and No One Lives Forever. Those are about the only games I can think of that had women in leading roles that weren't the typical giant break your back boobs and impossible tiny waists.
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Offline L'homme magique

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 12:08:57 am »
Silent Hill 3
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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 01:36:06 am »
Eternal Darkness also, to an extent.

Alex Roivas was easily the best character in ED. Some of the other characters seemed so dull by comparison, case in point being Karim.

Offline Trias

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2006, 01:44:56 pm »
hm I am missing a Bubble Bobble T-shirt on that page... I fancy the Gauntlet one, though, and of course the California Games one is cool too, apart from the colour...

uh, anyway, on topic:

Then you have to consider the legions of guy gamers that play female characters predominantly in MMOs like WoW or Everquest. There's clearly a large portion of people, even a large fraction of men who have an interest in playing as a woman.

indeed...



Somehow I always liked strong, believable female characters in games, and often play one myself.
And all the tits-n-butts girls in games always annoyed me. It just takes away the immersion and distracts from the game when all females you deal with are porn stars. And it feels awkward to play, like the game is yelling at you "you are a male nerd!" all the time. Well, it seems such games actually humilate men, not women  :P

This is for example one of my (if minor) few gripes with one of my most favourite games ever, Planescape: Torment. I mean, in the game itself it's ok, but in the diary or what where alle the creatures you have met so far are listed... well, compare those two depictions of upper-class townpersons:




That's one thing I liked about HL2, though I didn't play very far, but that Alyx (?) character looks pretty normal, doesn't she?

rant over.

edit: though the line-up of girls on that page in that context somehow reminds of some old school games like Maniac Mansion or Street Sports Basketball... I somehow feel the urge to pick my team among them  ;D
« Last Edit: June 19, 2006, 01:56:07 pm by Trias »

Offline Jack Lupino

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Re: More girl gamer rubbish...
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2006, 04:21:58 pm »
I didn't get the mutated left hand joke from fallout.